I must've written and rewritten this entry a dozen times. I've come to the realization that there's simply no neat and tidy way of being fully honest, especially given the circumstances. Thus, I apologize for the mess you're all about to find yourselves in. A lovely woman named Anne is a Catholic woman who is dating an Agnostic man. She believes they are a perfect match in all things but religion. He was born and raised Catholic but now views Catholicism as something akin to a fairytale while she obviously has deep reverence for her Catholic heritage. She asked us for our advice on what to do given she's looking to marry this man. I've been wrestling around a lot with this one. She commented her plight at the end of August to my "I Married an Agnostic" post from 2011, and I'm half afraid she thinks I've forgotten all about her! Anne, I promise that I haven't. I just didn't know how to write this without upsetting you. My advice, I fear, is not what you're hoping for. My advice, in fact, is to get out now. I realize you might be surprised to hear that from me, but I've walked in your shoes. For miles. I'm STILL walking in them which is precisely why I'm telling you that unless you know for certain you are being called to convert this man through a lifetime of marriage (which, itself, carries the reality of conversion not happening and your struggle having an adverse effect on future children), cut your losses, give your heart a healthy time to heal, and ask God to put the right man in your midst. You might be wondering how I could say such a thing when my own marriage hasn't fallen apart and my son is a (mostly) willing participant in the Faith. This was not without toil, tears, a very real threat of divorce, and an intense overhaul of my entire relationship with John. That's not even counting the amount of prayers and work that still go into it. Am I saying I wish I hadn't married John? Of course not. I got two children out of the deal and undoubtedly grew closer to Christ. However, I was significantly less spiritually mature than you currently are when I answered the call to marriage. You fully understand the importance of your faith and the necessity of a father to be a spiritual leader for his family. I didn't understand that; worse, I didn't even think such a thing was necessary! As a result of my ignorance, my family started out with a distinct disadvantage. We were not a cohesive unit in what would become a very large and important part of our lives. That friction reached its tentacles into everything, especially as I matured in my faith and realized the depth of my ignorance. John's refusal to accept my religious beliefs as valid directly - DIRECTLY - correlates to his refusal to be open to more children. So Anne, if you plan to have children, be prepared for a similar fate. It is an excruciating, at-times-unbearable, cross to shoulder. Readers who have been following me for a while might be incredibly unsettled by this.
When I first learned that this was the driving reason behind my husband's reluctance to have more children, words couldn't possibly express the emotions that coursed through me. In fact, it's been over a year since I learned that this was my reality and this is the first time I've voiced it beyond my two closest friends. It's also the prime reason why responding to you, Anne, has been so challenging. I couldn't be honest with you without being honest about the depth of my own struggle. This is a tragic, brutal and incredibly bigoted reality, and it's a reality I want so much to protect you from. I wouldn't wish this sort of sacrifice on anyone. It's a sacrifice that I willingly make, yes, but it's a willing sacrifice only because I've already made my vows. You have not. Please understand that this is what you'd be saying "I do" to... not just for yourself, but for your future children. And before you think to yourself that your boyfriend would never do such a thing, again, I've walked in your shoes. My husband said he accepted my Catholicism. Seeing Vincent's participation alongside me must've shifted that for him, because Catholicism was no longer some harmless fairy tale. To John, it became a bitter irritant. Prayers at bedtime are nails on chalkboard. Sunday Mass can solicit anything from an eye-roll to not-so-secret vindication when Vince cries that he doesn't want to go. Catholicism has become such a hated thing to my husband that he does not want to see it replicated in his children. Because he cannot love that part of me, he cannot love that part of our children. Thus, the only way to stave off such irritation is to stop having children. To poison one is enough... to poison more than one is unthinkable to him. And that is his mindset. Through tears, I demanded to know how he could hold such a bigoted notion in his head. He is not what I'd consider a bigot. He's otherwise incredibly tolerant and accepting. In fact, should any of his friends read this, they'd probably think I was somehow mistaken - that I'd misunderstood his motivation. I assure you I have not. I had him spell it out for me. That was one of the most painful and damaging conversations I've ever had with anyone in my entire life. It still stings when I think of it. I couldn't understand. I still don't to a certain degree. I asked him what part of Catholicism bothered him so much that he couldn't stand to see it played out in me... in Vincent. He couldn't answer me. He noted prayers at bedtime or his little sayings of "Jesus loves me" irritated him, but our son is wonderful. Him being baptized Catholic has not somehow made him less wonderful, but for John, it was enough to make him resent and yes, even hate, Catholicism. Hate it to the point where he willingly allows me to suffer an enforced infertility so as not to bring forth any other children who would suffer the fate of *gasp* Baptism and a Catholic education. It is not fear of finance... fear of time constraints... fear of love or capability that has condemned me to this cross of infertility. It is my husband's hatred of Catholicism. He shared this in a moment of deep and unfiltered honesty just over one year ago. I appreciated his honesty, because it showed a level of trust that we'd never come close to understanding. However, I've lived with this knowledge, completely unsure how to proceed. When I thought his decision was based on finances and such, the cross was easier to bear. At least his rationale made sense. This, however, was almost insurmountable. It is still a daily struggle. It is a struggle I want to preserve you from, Anne. It's a struggle I want to preserve your future children from. My husband and I have since discussed things. We both agree that had we known then what we know now about the importance of faith to one another, we likely would not have gotten married. I had, after all, broken off the engagement at one point when he tried to get me to agree not to baptize our future children. We should've known then that faith was more important than we were giving it credit for. But we didn't, and we publicly vowed to love one another every day for the rest of our lives. Love doesn't begin and end with tummy butterflies. It is an active choice to respect, honor, protect, nurture and support your spouse - every day. So that is how I find myself in this situation. I love my husband, Anne. I love him, respect him, support him, and do my best to nurture him in ways that will ultimately make him a better person. He obviously tries his best to do the same for me. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't warn you of the heartache that comes with this sort of union. Take my story to heart. For as much as you love your boyfriend (and I have no doubt you do), you will also love those children you create, and you need to be thinking of them. The best decision you can ever make for them is who their father will be. In all things, you have my prayers. Other readers, please feel free to chime in with your advice for Anne. <3
21 Comments
Dom
9/22/2014 11:15:57 am
I absolutely, completely, one hundred percent agree. Don't do it, Anne. I too have been there, and have lost.
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Amy
9/22/2014 12:16:47 pm
What a touching post. I have admired your courage in your marriage through your various posts, but this onehad to be so difficult to share.
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Gina
9/22/2014 04:22:19 pm
I really love your comment, Amy. The sense of "I'm doing this all on my own" is a sentiment I am very familiar with. Sometimes, it's really hard not having the support of your spouse.
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My husband has always said that, while it is not impossible for a marriage between a Catholic and a nonCatholic to work, it can be so, so much more difficult. Unfortunately, so many young people are so poorly taught what is best for a marriage and what marriage entails that they don't even realize what kind of can of worms they are getting themselves into. My husband would give the same advice you did. And it is heartbreaking in every way. {{{{{{{{{{Hugs!}}}}}}}}}
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Ilka J.
9/22/2014 03:58:08 pm
Agreed. I am not Catholic, so as for me, I'd simply substitute "Christian" for "catholic" -- and any advice on that matter coming from me would be the same. I'm thankful, though, that I know the truth of this merely through observation, not through experience.
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GFP
9/23/2014 03:40:59 am
I'd give the same advice. My husband officially converted a month before asking me to marry him, and every day I praise God that we share our faith in our marriage. My father wasn't around much and my parents divorced when I was 8 years old. The most important thing I set out to do in life was to find a father for my own children. I want to see them in Heaven. I can't begin to imagine the struggle and heartache if my husband didn't also work towards that goal with me.
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I'm sad and angry on your behalf, especially because your husband can't or won't articulate why he is so anti-Catholic. If it is that important to him he needs to be able to pinpoint what his problem is, and then perform due diligence. That's what I did when my husband announced that he was becoming Catholic, and that he wanted to raise future kids in the Catholic Church (at the time, we were both Lutheran).
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Stephanie
2/9/2015 02:48:17 pm
I agree with Gina's advice to Anna 200%. Speaking from an experience similar to hers, I now realize that faith has to be a source of unity, not a wedge between two married people. My husband was open to as many children as we could have, and he loves what our kids are turning into as I raise them Catholic, but he has a deep-seated antipathy for religion that was ingrained in him by misguided parents. He also finds forgiveness very, very difficult; he might have been better at it had he been raised with a Christian understanding. Gina, the situation you are describing is grounds for anullment, but like you, I don't think I could ever leave such an excellent man like my husband in sore need of his helpmate. That antipathy is an illness. I'm sure you pray about it. The Blessed Mother must have had pity on me and talked her son into helping, because things are better now. Twenty years was a long time to wait, hell, the last 4 seemed like purgatory. Never again. To Anna: take some good advice, get out NOW.
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L
9/23/2014 10:45:55 am
I was dating a man who is best described as agnostic. Through being with me, his many misconceptions of what Catholicism is were cleared up, and he became accepting and respectful of most of what I believe and said I would not and could not compromise on. Most is the key word there though - I needed him to respect and accept all of that part of me, and he ultimately couldn't. And like you, a big part of it was he thought I would want to have more kids than he would want in the long run. Yes, it hurt like nothing else I've ever experienced in my life, and it still hurts, but I am thankful that we had those conversations before things got too serious and he was honest with me now rather than later (i.e. after getting married).
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9/23/2014 01:50:32 pm
This is so heartbreaking! What a difficult cross to bear - but I must say that I respect and admire the total commitment you and your husband have to one another and your marriage vows. Often times in marriages when one person isn't Catholic I've seen it end in divorce as the children grow and receive Sacraments - so kudos to you both for communicating (as tough as it is) and seeing it through. You all will be in my prayers!
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9/23/2014 06:58:15 pm
I'll post here and on your blog. This must have been such a difficult thing to write, and even more difficult to live through. I've come through the experience of a mixed marriage (Catholic - non-Catholic) but on the other end. When we got married, I remember sitting down with the bishop, who, to me was a kind, gentle old man, but was stern with my Catholic wife-to-be laying into for a good half hour, drilling her with questions and the like.
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Wow! Your honesty is amazing and I am sure it will benefit a lot of people! My husband was not Catholic when we go married...he wasn't really anything. He believed in God, but never was raised in a faith or going to church. He knew how strong my faith was from day one. After we had been dating for several months I asked him to come with me to Mass. He was unsure about it. He asked me what if he didn't like it. My response was something along the lines of, "my faith means everything to me. I intend to be married in the Catholic Church, go to Mass every Sunday and have my kids baptized. I do not intend on doing it alone." I told him it was a non-negotiable for me. If he would have said he was not open to attending Mass I would have ended things right then. I grew up in a house divided religiously. My dad never went to Mass unless it was Christmas or Easter. I knew I did not want to take my kids to Mass alone like my mom did every Sunday. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I think having a like-minded faith is one of the most, if not most important characteristic to have in common when considering marriage. Best of luck Anne...if you are having any doubts at all, I think it's speaking of where your heart truly is.
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I agree, don't commit to a marriage when your potential spouse doesn't share your faith and is antagonistic towards it. My husband and I are both Catholic, and practicing Catholics, but even so, we are in differently places along our walk. Even that can be very trying. I can't imagine how incredibly hard it would be if we weren't already on the same basic page about faith and raising children.
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My advice is to think and pray hard. Marriage is a beautiful, beautiful gift, and an absolute joy. It's also hard. It involves sacrifice. The two people become one, but how? Only God. And you want to feel you are both pulling in the same direction. Does she want children? How many? Is he open to that? What if no children come? How will he want to navigate infertility? There are so many options presented, many of which are not options for faithful Catholics, but are very appealing when you are trying to start your family. You don't just marry someone because you love that person. You need to be able to imagine growing with and from that person and pulling together through life. It's easy to be married in the "for better" times. Imagine the "for worse" times. When you lose people you love, will it be hard for him to support you because he doesn't believe they've gone to heaven? Will it be hard for you to support him? None of this means definitely don't get married. And marrying someone requires a leap of faith. But you have to wonder whether you are bringing the same expectations and commitment to marriage if you have different belief systems. My husband and I are far, far from perfect. But when we said our vows, we said them for eternity. That matters less on your wedding day and more on the difficult days. I am so grateful to have a husband who shares my faith and helps me strengthen it. He challenges me and nurtures me. Marriage is part of our faith journey, just as parenthood is...it's all woven together. And it is such a blessing. Prayers for you, Gina, and for Anne, too.
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Gina, this is so honest and touching. I agree with you in telling Anne not to marry this man. The first thing a Catholic should identify themselves with is their faith, and if that is going to be a sticking point in a relationship, it will never be easy.
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10/24/2014 05:00:07 am
Gina, I love this! I have been looking for an honest piece about this issue for a long time. Did you ever get my email about writing for catholic stand? Do you want to submit this to Ignitum or CS?
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Danni
7/25/2016 02:18:22 pm
I can't tell you how grateful I am for this post. I have been dating a man who I love a great deal, and for the last 5 years he has told me that he was a Methodist. He proposed a couple of months ago and because his grandfather is ill we've decided to marry in October. He knew I was religious when we met, and I have only grown closer to Christ as I have gotten older. I know that my calling to Christ is, like all of our's, to make him the centerpoint of my life. My fiance has actually encouraged that relationship by asking the hard questions and forcing me to investigate some issues that I was reluctant to understand, but eventually, through prayer and questioning, came to closer alignment with the Church on.
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Gina
7/25/2016 03:03:58 pm
Oh Danni!!!
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Bob Foss
11/14/2016 03:01:07 pm
Thanks, Gina for addressing what appears to be a more common situation for those of us with non-believing spouses than many think. As my comments below attest, my marriage has, and still is, challenging. Unfortunately, I married quite young (age 19) and did not realize or have the vision as to how important my Catholic faith would be to me at that age. Both my adult children are also agnostic, and of course, I hold myself responsible for much of their lack of faith, but you certainly have given Anna and others some important points. While my wife supports me going to Mass, she really doesn't realize how empty one's life can spiritually be when your spouse does not share core beliefs such as religion. Thanks again for sharing.
Bob Foss
9/18/2016 12:47:36 am
After almost 50 years of marriage to a non-believing woman (who came from a non-religous Jewish family) I find myself going to Mass by myself and looking at the happy families and older couples sharing the Mass. When we had our kids, I was a fallen away Catholic and didn't figure religion was important for my kids. My wife had no interest in religion, but especially a dislike for Catholcism. My friendship with Catholic friends sparked her to convert, but after one year, she retreated. I feel begging her to go to Mass would be futile and not genuine as she doesn't believe. I would advise anyone that without the same Catholic faith, your marriage will be a challenge, and it doesn't get easier as time goes by. Marrying a non-Catholic Christian would have been a better option for me, or even a religious Jewish woman, as is the case with many successfu marriages. But if your spouse is non-religious, or especially hostile to religion, I would cut my losses quickly and ask God for guidance in finding a Catholic woman to share my life with.
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