Medjugorje and the "Pater" Argument

11/19/2011

Cool it with the Medjugorje haterade, people!

Geez! You'd think after the countless times children have been attacked for "stupidity" or "imagination" only to be later vindicated folks would be a little more willing to hold their tongues on condemning!

I saw some super-angry commentary over at a blog I love and respect. Folks were only too happy to condemn Medjugorje as "the work of satan" or "people looking to get rich."

How heartbreaking that we have become so jaded as to ignore the spiritual fruits blossoming there...

I'm all for taking time to delve into reported messages to question their validity. I'm all for eyeballing the visionaries under a microscope for even the faintest sliver of dishonesty. Above all, I'm in full support of making a decision - for yourself - on the truth of ANY supposed apparition.

What I am NOT okay with, however, is this suspicious attack on everything pertaining to Medjugorje. It seems as if folks are refusing to even discuss the possibility that Our Lady would come to us in such a manner. In fact, one of my least favorite arguments against Medjugorje is that Our Lady "prayed the Our Father" with the children. Of course, this was one of the first "SEE? Medjugorje HAS to be a fake!!!" Apparently the Blessed Mother reciting the Our Father is simply blasphemous. He was angry because Mary never had any trespasses to be forgiven, nor does she need "daily bread" since she's in Heaven. Obviously, for the Blessed Mother to utter such a prayer, Satan must be behind it!!!

*Shakes head*

I guess this guy (and all others who subscribe to this belief) forgets that Jesus, Himself, gave us that prayer. Would this fellow like to explain to me the trespasses Our Lord was guilty of? What "daily bread" was He in need of?

What people tend to forget is Our Lady, much like Christ, comes to us as an example of how we are to live our lives. A large part of our lives should be prayer, and what better example of prayer do we have than Our Lady? Her entire life was (and is) a prayer, magnifying her God in so perfect a way as to please Him eternally. Thus, if Our Lady prays the Our Father, calling us to follow her example, who are we to turn away?

Plus, Our Lady is full of humility - even in Heaven, she knows she would not exist if not for the Love of God. Thus, her "daily bread" is very much His Love, is it not?

And let us not forget that both Our Lord and Our Lady died. They BOTH suffered the effects of sin not because they were guilty of sin themselves. On the contrary... both were sinless from conception (or incarnation) until death. She understood that death was God's means to reunite humanity to Himself. Through death, eternal life once again becomes our inheritance. Thus, Our Lady followed the same path of Her Perfect Son, that she may offer even her death for the salvation of sinners.

Again... Mary is our perfect example.

We all need God. Yes, even the Mother of God. If the Queen of Heaven humbles herself to acknowledge this... to follow every example He gives, who are we to arrogantly place ourselves above her?

*sigh*

That is, by far, my least favorite argument against Medjugorje. It just doesn't make any sense. None. Of COURSE Our Lady would pray the Our Father... as should we all.

3 Comments

Katherine link

11/21/2011 02:12:55 am

I currently hold no opinion on Medjugorje other than reserved skepticism. I await the decision of the Church.

That being said though, why would praying the Our Father be an argument against? Mary was reported to pray the rosary with St. Bernadette and the children of Fatima.....whose rosary doesn't have a few Our Fathers in it? That makes no sense unless Mary doesn't pray the rosary....which likewise makes no sense.

Gina link

11/21/2011 02:23:21 am

Thank you! It DOESN'T make any sense! And yet inevitably, someone will always bring it up as if that is all the proof anyone should ever need.

*shakes head*

Your stance is what I would hope for from most. Reserved skepticism makes sense. Automatic hatred, disgust, and vehement anger decrying any possibility of validity simply has no place here.

I honestly don't get it. Actually, I do. No doubt the devil doesn't like anyone encouraging folks to pray the rosary (or pray in general)... so I wouldn't be surprised if he's running around stirring up ire, but still. Sheesh.

annie link

6/28/2014 08:00:08 am

The "Our Father" question stems from the 1858 Lourdes apparitions. It is an important incident. The significance is that At Lourdes Our Lady did not hail herself while Bernadette recited the rosary. While Our Lady didn't say any Hail Mary's, but did say the Glory Be, which honours the Holy Trinity. This makes complete sense considering she was the most humble woman who ever lived on earth (saying the Hail Mary would be honouring herself.) Neither could she utter the line, "forgive us our trespasses" as this would be an untruth given her nature.This was a strong indication for the P.P. that the obscure, Soubrious girl was not lying or hallucinating.

In Fatima the children recited the rosary, Our Lady repeatedly instructed them to pray the rosary daily but she didn't say it with them.

Another sign of authenticity is that unless Our Lady is announced by an angel, as in Fatima and Rue Da Bac, the visionaries don't know who they are seeing beyond a breathtakingly beautiful lady who fills them with joy. Bernadette didn't say it was Our Lady. The first visionary at Kibeho had to ask "Who are you my lady?" Apparitions in Nicaragua, La Salette, Beauring and Guadalupe all conform to this. At Medjugorje the claim was made straight away by the teenagers that it was Our Lady who was appearing. I do know that later one teenager thought to bring blessed salt and water but the claim that Our Lady was appearing was made from the get go.

I think really what establishes the case for me is that if Our Lady wanted to indicate that she was appearing in Medjugorje she would have given a sign that the Church authorities in Mostar would have been able to recognise, test and verify. This has not happened. In Lourdes you have a miraculous spring uncovered by Bernadette, in Guadalupe the supernatural image on Juan Diego's tilma. Nicaragua and Kibheo had highly detailed prophecies of future events that were given in testimony to the bishops. These prophecies came true to the last detail.(The last two apparitions began at almost the same time as Medjugorje and both have been fully approved by the Church.)
In Fatima you had the 1917 miracle of the sun with the exact date foretold in advance by the chidren.This was witnessed by 40, 000 witnesses.

What you have in Medjugorje to date is a predicted sign that has not materialised in 33years despite "visionaries" repeatedly claiming it would appear within months during the early 80's. You have multiple secrets that remain undisclosed despite church authorities requesting they be documented and sealed so they can be verified by the Church at a future date. Why would you be given secrets that the Church can't see in advance to verify? Especially when the secrets could, given time, verify the authenticity of the apparitions?

Spinning crosses, mysterious images in photographs, luminous lights and rosary beads going a gold colour (as inspiring as pilgrims find them) are not going to be studied by the Vatican. No apparition stood up on fruits alone.The Church tends to study the obedience of the "visionaries" to their local bishop first as holy obedience is a hallmark of authenticity. Wherever good people pray Heavenly grace finds them. The sacraments are the treasures of the Church and the fount of Grace in Medjugorje and every Catholic parish church in the world.

Sadly, as yet, not one healing reported in Medjugorje has been verified as miraculous by the Lourdes Medical Bureau, who are the world experts on such phenomena. They have actually discounted a number of medical cases that were sent from Medjugorje for verification of supernatual healing. Finally, I wish that good people I know who have been to Medjugorje multiple times would consider learning about or visiting Church approved shrines where Our Lady actually did appear and said something profound to humanity. Sincerely, A.

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Medjugorje and the "Pater" Argument

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