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More 'Secret' Questions (and One Really Good Point)

5/2/2012

9 Comments

 
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There is a woman on Facebook who has taken my Darkest Secret entry into over-the-top territory.  I just found her posting the below questions on yet ANOTHER wall.  Granted, she's driving traffic to my site, but I'm really wondering at what cost. 

The insinuations she's making and the threads they then spawn (based on how she words her questions) have ended up turning this discussion very ugly.  These are the threads in which people end up accusing John of being the spawn of satan or me being an inept child stuck in slavery caused by my blind zeal for religion.

She did end up asking a really great question at the end, though.

Anyway, a priest ended up answering one of her pointed comments.  I felt the need to redirect a bit of that conversation (so that others didn't fall into erroneous thinking), so I responded.  I'm going to post that here because apparently answering them in the commentary repeated times did absolutely nothing to satiate her curiosity.

I'll bold her commentary and leave as normal my responses.  For the love of all that's fluffy and golden in the world, if you still have questions, direct them to me.

Please answer this as no one else seems to give a satisfactory answer.

The Catholic woman in the blog below is being forced to remain childless because her non-Catholic husband refuses to have more kids.  A bunch of women have written in to comment and many - MANY - of them are struggling with a similar situation (myself included).  I think you should do a segment that deals with how to answer this question from a Catholic standpoint.

1 - Is she committing a mortal sin by allowing him to do use birth control?

I'm NOT in the state of mortal sin. I'm not in the state of sin at all by being forced into a contraceptive union. My illustration is thus: Mike hits Jane. While Jane feels the pain incurred by Mike's slap, Jane is not at fault for his sin. Jane is blameless. So while I feel the emotional pain caused by John's decision to do this, I will not be held accountable in God's eyes because I'm not the one contracepting.


2 - Should she refrain from having sex if he's going to continue to use bc against her will?

To refrain from sex in order to "punish" my husband or guilt him into children is akin to breaking my wedding vows, so dear Father, I must disagree with you on this.

Sex is not just for procreation and it is not just for pleasure. It is also an important renewal of my wedding vows which serve to strengthen our relationship as husband and wife. He is already using one barrier to our union through his choice to use contraception. I will not be a party to creating another barrier through refusing to unite myself more closely to him through the act of sex.


That would be akin to Christ refusing me in the Sacrament of Holy Communion because I consistently fail adhering to His Will as we're called to do. I still lie, I still struggle with pride, and I don't accept the crosses He gives me with charity. I'm failing to uphold my end of the Catholic deal, right? Would Jesus ever refuse me (barring mortal sins) in the Eucharist? No. Thus, how can I place myself above His example and react to my husband in such a way?

No - it is better to leave this in God's Hands and continue to be the best wife I can be to him. Maybe through my example of love, he will come to know something of God's Love.


3 - Is she a candidate for an annulment since he's breaking one of his marriage vows?

I'm NOT a candidate for annulment as John changed his mind after marriage. Also, we're not LOOKING to separate as we still love one another and wish to remain a family.  As Father stated, if John had lied during our vows and never had any intention of creating children, that'd be different.  The fact remains that his mind changed and regardless, we still love one another.

4 - Since her husband is refusing, if he remains obstinate, would she be allowed to go to an IVF facility and "adopt" an embryo without facing a moral dilemma?

I'm actually on the fence with IVF. That's actually a REALLY interesting point that I never thought of.

Father is correct - IVF itself is morally objectionable due to the fact that science is not how God decreed life to initiate, but if an infertile married couple chose to "adopt" a life that was already made through the sin of another, wouldn't this be kinda like adopting the child of a rape victim? Or adopting a forgotten / abandoned child from an orphanage?

Since these embryos remain in a state of frozen suspension, a loving, infertile couple who are open to life but simply unable to conceive may have been created infertile by God specifically so they could be the Hand of Divine Providence for those forgotten lives.

I honestly have no idea about that one, but it's definitely something to think about.  Anyone else have opinions on this one, 'cause it's actually a really interesting point.

9 Comments
Terese
5/2/2012 05:51:59 am

You've covered these all in the commentary to the point of beating a dead horse. I suspect things got too long to read for this woman, or maybe she saw a way to boost her own stats with the threads that this entry would create for her. If it generates a lot of traffic to you, it would've generated a lot of traffic through her, first. It's a good way to bump your own stats.

Reply
Terese
5/2/2012 05:54:08 am

Oh, but I really like where you took the IVF logic. I found this through the thread on the "Ask a Priest" wall, too, and I really hope father adds his two cents to the mix.

Could you imagine St. Peter having to field these questions back when they were debating circumcision?

Reply
Gina link
5/2/2012 06:01:16 am

Glad you stopped by, Terese. Thanks for letting me know who linked you.

I've been thinking about that last question non-stop this morning. I honestly hope Father answers it, too, but with all the other stuff he's got piling up on that page, it's doubtful he'll cycle back to it.

I have someone in mind who is way more equipped than I to answer it, though...

*runs off to find aforementioned person*

Reply
Maggie Smith
5/2/2012 07:24:22 am

While I thank you for answering these questions, I'm annoyed you assumed I was doing it to drive up numbers or make you out to be a bad guy.

I and two girlfriends are struggling with something similar, and I wanted the proper guidance on how best to proceed.

I realized you answered some of these questions in the thread (I did sort of get lazy and give up). I also wanted a priest to answer them for me. I posted it everywhere in an attempt to get someone to answer these questions because it seems like no one wants to touch them with a forty foot pole.

Your blog really did speak volumes to me, and from the sounds of it, a lot of the people I ended up driving to your site. I'm sorry that some of the threads got a little nasty (really, I am). I did look over some and realized that my language was wrong and could have started trouble. As you pointed out with the TTSF thread, the insistence on mortal sin was wrong of me, and my comment about women continuing to have sex under such circumstances being hellbound was rash. You do have my sincerest apologies for those things.

I think sometimes on blogs we get carried away by the virtue of being relatively anonymous. I am really sorry about all that. I do want to spread this around as I think other people should be made aware of it. A lot of us women suffer in silence and have no other recourse. You opened the door in a lot of ways with this, and I hope it spreads.

I'll stop reposting it with all those questions now as you did answer them. I'm curious to know how your friend responds to the IVF point now. I'm glad I was able to add something to the discussion.

Reply
Gina
5/2/2012 07:53:07 am

Hi Maggie (or is it Mattie, 'cause you're listed as a Mattie on FB). Thanks for taking the time to come back and read the responses.

I accept your apology regarding the incendiary language used in the various threads. I do appreciate the traffic to the site, because hopefully people are reading OTHER entries that give them a better understanding of Catholicism in general. That's always a plus. As I said above, though, I just wish there wasn't so much negativity attached to the threads.

Anyway, you really did add to the discussion, but in more ways than one. I assume plenty of the women who commented found their way to my page through one of your links. Secondly, this last point you made about IVF really is a good question. I'm curious to find out what the response is, too.

I'm honestly way out of my league for that one. Ha ha.

I wish you all the best and hope you stick around for future entries. I really am glad this opened the door for you and your friends. I hope this gets talked about more openly, especially if women struggle with this so much. I honestly thought I was in the minority on this.

Blessings to you.

Reply
shalimamma link
5/3/2012 08:35:44 am

Actually, I am only here to boost my blog stats. Cuz, you know, that's how I know I am popular and it all comes down to numbers, baby. Plus, Gina is such a cool chick, that I want to be associated with her, so maybe that will get me even MORE traffic.

LOL!

I agree with Maggie (or Mattie?) about how we can get carried away online because we have this feeling of anonymity... kind of like a little mamma behind the wheel of a semi... rev up that anger, honey, cuz they can't see you anyway! I've been guilty of the same in the past. Now I just say whatever I would say if the person were standing there... I think that's a good image to keep in mind when writing a post (and posting on Facebook)...

Gina, you are very patient and gracious. I am impressed with how you have handled the conflict here by everyone's reactions.

Love and hugs to my new friend,
shalimamma

Reply
Gina
5/3/2012 01:48:19 pm

I hope you don't expect much of a bump from me. Already looks like the traffic has died down. Ha!

I appreciate the vote of confidence, though. And yup - we've all been guilty of hiding behind the veil. My friend, Theresa, and I were discussing this over lunch just yesterday. She correctly pointed out it was likely that mindset that set this whole basket of crazy aflame. Ha ha.

I've been very lucky on this site, though. Most people have been very kind and supportive, and the e-mails I've gotten were so sweet. <3

Reply
Gina
5/4/2012 01:58:29 am

For the record, now I'm a bit miffed. The priest who responded to the original thread deleted my commentary (because I disagreed with his stance that I should refuse to have sex with John as punishment for his use of contraception).

*Grump grump grump*

I sincerely hope couples seeking spiritual advice don't get THAT as a proper, loving idea. *shakes head*

Reply
Alicia
6/7/2016 02:27:31 pm

This is an old thread, but I hate to break it to you about the "snow flake" babies. There are not as many as you think. The women who have IVF and are lucky usually to have one or two embryos make it to blast and those are transferred right away. Many of the lucky few women who produce more than that often go through all of them trying to have a baby only to have miscarriage after miscarriage. In addition, there are women who consider every embryo they produce with their husbands to be a baby and they transfer each and every one in hopes of having a child, and sometimes they are able to have two or three children. I think it is admirable of you to think of the "snow flake" babies, but they are very hard to adopt because there are so few. You don't have to publish this btw, I probably should have just messaged you,

Also, my heart goes out to you. I am Catholic and yes, I am divorced because my first husband was mentally ill. I don't begrudge him anything and I am grateful for the years I was a bread winner and somewhat care giver. We did not have sex--maybe a handful of times--and he could not complete the act most of those few times. There would have been no children from that marriage. After he left I walked the Camino de Santiago---all 500 miles of it--and ask St. James for a family. Now 6 years and another Camino late (I told my now husband I would not marry him unless he walked the 500 miles with me! And even though he isn't Catholic, he did. With a good heart and humor "you know why are we on this mountain? If a Lutheran had made this path, it would have been a straight line with no mountains!" lol) and going through infertility (my husband is infertile), we have two beautiful babies. We have promised to walk with all our babies when they are older as a way to introduce them to the world. I was sorry for your struggles with your husband and we all have our own path; I hope you have found peace. As we pilgrims say: Buen Camino!

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