My Broken Fiat
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  • Blog
  • About / Contact Me
    • My 'Reversion'
    • Why "MyBrokenFiat?"
  • The Archive
  • Prayers

My Darkest Secret

4/18/2012

216 Comments

 
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Shhh - I've got a secret to share...
This is a post I've attempted to start dozens of times.  I'm half wondering what's going to happen to this one. 

Will this be the one that gets published?  Or will this one, too, be drowned out by tears, frustration, anger or sadness?

Guess the only way to find out is to keep typing.

My earliest memories revolve around my two younger siblings (both sisters) whom I always tried to "mother hen."  I'd initiate games, I'd always be the "teacher" during pretend play, and I'd be the one that would organize and direct whatever mischief we'd get ourselves into. 

However, I never liked dolls.  That was my sister's thing.  Maria was the quintessential "mother."  She'd run around carrying her dolls everywhere, being sure to feed, diaper and burp them.  I was much more interested in real babies.  Plastic recreations simply made me feel cheated.  I wanted real children to play with!

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Like this in hot pink molded plastic!
I remember one Christmas, "Santa" brought me a swing for dolls.  Santa, mind you, was our neighbor, Stan, who would dress up and bring us gifts on a random night leading up to Christmas - we all looked forward to that special visit every year.  Anyway, the year he gave me the doll swing, I knew a mistake had been made.  "Santa," I said, "I think this is Maria's gift."

Truth be told, Maria's eyes were glistening with jealousy.  She hadn't opened her present yet, but boy did she want mine!  It was pink and white and perfect for any doll lucky enough to find itself seated there.

Santa replied that he was certain the swing was mine because he picked it out especially for me.  He knew I'd need it for the gift Maria was getting.  Turns out she was given a Baby Alive type doll - moving parts, eyes that opened and closed, and she even giggled after sipping her bottle.  Maria was absolutely in her glories, and she immediately went to town cooing over the new "baby doll" she was given charge over.  I took its spoon and tried to figure out how the disappearing peas worked.

That night, feeling completely gypped, I went to bed angry with Santa for not knowing that I thought baby dolls were stupid.  What he said about me needing it for Maria irritated me even more, because my Christmas present should've been for ME, not for Maria. 

Obviously I was a selfish little brat at 5 years old.  *Sheepish grin*


Anyway, I'd love to say that I immediately learned my lesson but I didn't.  It took me a few days of sulking before I understood that "Santa" had wanted to foster sharing between my sister and I.  Shannon, at this point, was still too young to really play with Maria and I (though I remember trying to get her into the doll swing at one point).   I also tried to get our cat, Sparky, in there, but he refused to have any parts of it. 

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Finally, Maria said to me that her dolly wanted to take a ride in my swing.  I knew her dolly didn't want to do anything of the sort.  Dolls don't have emotions or desires.  Maria just wanted to use my swing.  Stupid doll.  No, no she can't use my swing.  It's my swing, and even though I think it's a stupid present, she can't use it because it's mine.

Maria (being extremely sensitive at this point in time), crinkled her face at me and said I was being really mean.  I should be nicer to the baby doll because her feelings were hurt now that I was being so mean.

Just like I knew Maria was expressing her own desire to use the swing through the doll, I understood then that she was also letting me know she was hurt because I was being mean to her.

Fully reproached, I handed over my swing to let her play to her heart's content.  I was the big sister... it was my job to be nice to Maria, even if I thought what she wanted to do was stupid.  I realized, too, that letting her play with the swing made me feel like a mom.  I spent a while with her, just helping her play, wondering if that's what our mother felt like when she sat down to play a game with me. 

I was proud of myself because I knew what I was doing was right.  I was acting like a real mom - something I'd always, always wanted to be - even from an early age.

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Anyway, fast forward through the years.  I began keeping a diary.  The diary wasn't just a collection of angst-y whining that is typical of a tween (but boy is there a lot of that in there!).  It was a history lesson meant to show my future children that I was once exactly like them.

My entries always called out my future progeny.  I'd write letters to them, or when I'd describe the mischief I'd get into, I'd say "So don't think Mommy doesn't know what kind of games you're playing when you just say you're going out with friends!  I know better!"

Really.  I did this from my very first diary entry (I still have them all) and continue right up until present day.  All throughout my pregnancy with Vincent I'd write him little love notes telling him about all the excitement his very existence brought.  I'd mention his future brothers and sisters, telling them that I couldn't wait to feel the same excitement for them, just so they didn't feel left out at all the talk about Vincent.

I always imagined my kids finding my set of diaries in a forgotten box in the attic.  They'd laugh at the same entries that now make me cringe, they'd be surprised by some of my antics, and they'd learn something from my more vulnerable moments.  It was always my hope that these diaries would give them a window into who Mommy is outside of just "Mommy."  I always wanted my kids to understand that I'm a person with emotions that rival their own... that Mommy DOES understand the hurt of lost friendships, the joy of new romance, and the thrill of independence.

You see, in my mind, these children already exist.  They always have.  I've been longing for them from my earliest memories.   I've thought of them, planned for them, and made many decisions based on what their future perception of me would be (hence my lack of tattoos even though I've always really, really wanted one).  I've just been waiting for them to finally arrive so I could meet them.

...

That's what makes this entry so incredibly difficult for me. 

I am the mother of children I'll never meet.

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I am not infertile.  John is not infertile.  Neither of us are sterilized, and there isn't even an age issue considering we're both young enough to not have the fear that accompanies the pregnancies of older mothers. 

Why, then, am I lamenting the fact that I will never have the family I'd always envisioned?

Here is my secret...

My husband does not want any more children and defends his desire to use birth control to ensure I remain barren.

This is typically the moment I delete the entry and lock myself in a bathroom.  The thought of other people knowing that this is my reality is incredibly scary.  To even admit that this is my reality is tantamount to me "giving up" on my kids - the ones who always have (and always will) exist in my heart, just waiting to be given a body to hug me with.


Ugh - each passing sentence has me feeling like I'm walking through thicker and thicker mud.  I keep stopping mid-sentence, unsure if I can continue, half-wanting to retreat and find that aforementioned bathroom. 

However, I won't stop this time.  The pain of secrecy is almost as much to bear as the pain of vulnerability now.  The last couple weeks have been particularly thorny for me, which I think is why I'm now feeling the overwhelming "urge to purge" through writing.
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Several friends recently had children (with about a dozen more expecting).  I'm both ridiculously happy for these friends and admittedly jealous.  I am truly thrilled for the new life they're bringing forth because they all deserve the happiness that these children will undoubtedly bring, but I also have a twinge of jealousy that I don't get to experience growing my family as well. 

Every time I hold their newborns or see the pictures on Facebook, my heart both grows with joy and falls apart with grief.  I don't say anything to anyone about this, because God forbid anyone feel guilty about sharing their joy with the world.  I would never want that.  I really do enjoy sharing in their joy, and I am content to keep my grief my own.  I really am. 

However, the questions are getting to be too much, the insinuations too hurtful, and the comments too overwhelming.

Over Christmas, we spent time with a family that just had a newborn.  Of course, I was more than happy to hold her to give her mom a break.  Several comments were made by my family that I looked good with a baby girl (or maybe I'd be next, etc).  I both appreciated the comments and just about died from how overwhelmed with grief I felt.  More than anything I'd like to add a few more names to the family tree, but I knew what they didn't.  Their longing for grandchildren / cousins / nieces / nephews pales in comparison to mine.  Couple it with the fact that I needed to keep that tid-bit to myself only made it worse.  I was walking around choking back tears knowing that I couldn't provide what we all wanted.

Over Easter, we spent time with this same family.  The new mom asked when John and I would be having another.  Thank God for sunglasses, because tears immediately sprang to my eyes.  Having been bombarded for weeks with babies and pregnancy reveals, I was barely able to conceal the pain as I murmured, "Hopefully one day.  Still haven't quite convinced John the timing's right."


I then looked up at the ride my niece was on and made some sort of comment about her making an adorable face.  I couldn't actually see Alliya's face, but it immediately brought the conversation to a halt as the mom tried to search her out among the crowd.

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My beautiful Alliya!
Later that afternoon, my niece saw me with the baby again.  As she and Vincent were dancing around the living room, she said,

"Aunt Gina, do you want another baby?"

I smiled at her and said, "Alliya, I'd like 100 more babies."

She laughed (as did my mother-in-law) and replied, "Why did you have Vincent?"

I said, "Because I loved him so very much."

My mother-in-law was trying to answer her as well, but Alliya was pretty intent on my response.  She's a smart one!  She didn't accept my answer as good enough, so she pressed me further with
:

"Then why don't you have more?"

Her innocent question was more loaded than she realized, and I fault her none for the immediate torrent of grief that coursed through me.  I pulled the newborn against me and kissed her head, once again taken hostage by my pained knowledge that the baby I held wasn't mine and likely never would be.

I soon handed the baby back to her mother so I could recollect myself in private.  I could see John sitting on the porch talking to the men and it made me slightly irritated that he never got these kinds of questions.  These were conversations for women, not men.  Besides, even if someone did ask him about children, he'd nonchalantly express his contentment with Vincent (which is fine). 


Then this weekend, we spent some time with my best friend's family.  She and her brothers have exactly the kind of relationship I always knew my kids would have with one another.  Watching Mary and her siblings play ball in the yard together was both wonderful and painful.  When I think of the children I'll never have, I can't help but feel like I'm cheating Vincent out of his siblings.  I mean, I even asked John about that - he and his siblings have a good relationship.  Didn't he think that Vincent deserved the same?

And then I worry about when we get older - will Vince be forced to care for us by himself?  Will he have no support system with which to rely when John and I die?  It's one thing to share this sorta pain with your friends - it's entirely different to share it with those who know EXACTLY the loss you feel.  Who but a sibling can share that sort of grief with you?

And then what if Vincent does grow up and decide to become a priest (I can only pray - ha!).  In addition to me not having children, I would then also be denied grandchildren.  These things are painful to me alone.  John doesn't really desire these things, so there isn't any loss for him in that regard.  And that's fair.  I can't (and wouldn't) force him into caring for something that is a non-issue.  He can't be faulted for his feelings on this subject.  Considering how bombarded we are anymore regarding children being nothing more than a hinderance to personal gratification and success, I really am unsurprised. 

He was afraid I'd resent him for his feelings, but I can't.  I understand his feelings and they are valid.  So please don't attack him for that which he has no real control over.  His feelings are just as strong (and valid) as mine.

Hiding this flood of emotion has become extremely taxing.  I don't like to bombard John with it, and I certainly never want to "out" him to his family (because no doubt there would be some head-wagging from certain corners).  I also never want to make others feel bad for sharing their joy - or even making comments that imply the children I'd bear are wanted. 

But the pain is there.  It is palpable, and I honestly think this must be what couples struggling with infertility face.  It has made me much more sensitive to my own comments regarding children and time-frames that revolve around them.  After all, I'm kind of dealing with a forced sterility. 

No, that's not fair.  It's not forced.  It took me a while, but I've recently come to understand that this is something I have willingly accepted for the benefit of my husband.


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Lady and the Atheist
For a while, he was worried I'd grow to resent him for his unwillingness to grow our family.  He'd avoid the topic like the Plague, afraid that if he was honest about his desire to remain a one-child family, I'd divorce him for someone who would give me what I wanted.

In fact, he suggested I do that, himself, during one of the many heated debates we had about this.

He was also concerned I'd attempt to force a pregnancy.  God only knows how he thought I'd do that.  I explained I'd never force a child into a situation in which he or she might end up resented.  For as much as I want these children, I'd never want to raise them in an environment in which they weren't given the unconditional love due to them.

Besides, I didn't marry John because he'd be my baby-factory.  I married John because I love him and saw a future with him.  We did have discussions on children before marriage, and I've always envisioned a large family.  His vision changed along the way (hence the situation I now find myself in).  Regardless, I vowed to stick it out with him.  I didn't vow to stick it out with him so long as he conformed to my desires for a large family.


Now two of my friends who are aware of the situation have pointed out that John, himself, vowed to be open to life.  That opens the door to an easy annulment so I could drop him and move on.

While I understood they were attempting to help me "out" of my situation, they didn't understand that I didn't accept divorce (or even annulment) as an answer.  Even though I technically have every right to dissolve the marriage because of his refusal to accept this particular vow, I would never do such a thing.  It's non-sensical.

Why?

Well, for starters, I know without a doubt in my mind that John was meant to be my husband.  When I prayed to Our Lady for a good man who would be an incredible father, the response was John.  He is a good man and an incredible father.  His ideas on the size of our family may have fluctuated, but his integrity as a person never has.  Also his ability to provide a life for Vincent and I can never be called into question.  I have more in John than most women could find in 100.  For that, I am eternally grateful.


Besides, if you think about it, marriage is a covenant.  It's a promise between two people to uphold certain things, right?  Well, how many covenants did God make with the Israelites?  Plenty - each one of them broken by humanity.  However, God never reneged on His end of the deal, right?

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Maybe this is the cross Christ is asking me to bear.  Thus, I offer this to Him for whatever it is that He needs it for.  I admit that I really, REALLY struggle under the weight of it at times.  These last few weeks have been the toughest by far.  But I believe that He never gives us something so heavy that His Grace can't prop us up enough to handle it.

In accepting this, I think I really came to understand what I've always said about Christ's love.  When I explained to John the sacrifice I was willingly making for him (and thus, for our marriage), he responded with, "I don't deserve so much sacrifice.  It's too much."


I heard myself in his voice.  I really did.  We were having this heart-to-heart in bed when he said that, and I can honestly say I immediately pictured myself at the foot of the Cross saying the same thing to Jesus. 

The point of sacrifice is NOT that the person you're sacrificing for deserves it.  A real sacrifice is a gift of love, given freely because you WANT to give it without any expectation for repayment.  That quote I found a few months ago was right:

Love transforms suffering into sacrifice.


It is LOVE that enables me to make this sacrifice without contempt, without resentment, and without anger. 

That doesn't mean I won't feel intense emotional pain.  Love just gives me the strength to survive it... to endure it willingly for the benefit of both John and Christ. 

That knowledge is the only thing that gives me solace.  I understand this is a wound that won't heal... and maybe it's not meant to.  Maybe it needs to stay fresh with each innocent comment, each new pregnancy, and each new experience I have seeing siblings tottering around the park together while Vince unsuccessfully tries to butt in and play, too. 

My ways are not His ways, and maybe He's got something in store for me up ahead.

Just keep me and my family in your prayers.  As I said, this has been an incredibly difficult few weeks (on an emotional level), and I'm hoping this entry lets off some of the steam that's been suffocating me.

Also, for those of you still with me ('cause wow... this really got long), I appreciate the time you spent.  Blessings to you and yours.

***PS - I've written a rebuttal to several of the more Negative Nancys who have written in to lament the many shameful things I've said.  That can be found here.***

***PPS - I've now had to swap commentary to "Approve First" due to the overwhelming number of respondents who have declared themselves Christ by judging my husband and I guilty of mortal sin.  So feel free to comment, but know that if you overstep your bounds, I'm very friendly with the delete button.***

216 Comments
Theresa
4/18/2012 01:33:37 pm

This makes me sad for you as well. I just can't imagine you not having anymore children. You are just so natural with them. Sometimes when I'm over I just stare at you with Vincent because I'm so amazed at the way you are with him. I don't think I can ever accept you not having anymore children. I'm always going to hope that one day you might be blessed with one again. :)


On a lighter note is Sparky the cat that fell out your bedroom window?

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Gina
4/18/2012 01:47:46 pm

Well,Sparky II is the cat you swore fell out of my bedroom window - ha ha. His predecessor (Sparky I) was who I attempted to shove into the swing.

And thanks - I appreciate that.

I don't think you realize it, but that night we came home from Mancation - what you said? It was probably one of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me. It made me feel a lot better. It really did.

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Doug Pounds
7/31/2012 01:46:43 pm

I have been married to my wife Jacki of 27 years and she is suffering a cronic illness that is very taxing to me. Thanks for reminding me that our marriage is a covenant and not a contract. Lord, I pray for love to turn suffering into sacrifice.

Thanks,

Doug

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Gina
9/4/2012 04:29:44 pm

I have no idea how I didn't see this until now, but Doug, that's beautiful.

I'll keep you and your wife in my prayers. <3

Theresa
4/18/2012 01:56:13 pm

I don't remember what i said, you know me and my memory, I meant it though I'm sure.

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Katherine link
4/21/2012 11:20:59 pm

I am so sorry. And, no, I don't think seeking annulment or divorce or anything is an answer. It would only cause more pain, more problems and bring the difficulties closer to Vincent. The situation is heart breaking but such a "solution" would only be more heart-breaking.

Honestly, my only advice is to pray like crazy. God can turn hearts. I've often had something on my heart and just told God that if He wanted it, He'd have to convince my husband. So far He has on every account but one - we don't have a dog yet. But I figure if God doesn't get to him, the kids will eventually. :)

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Gina
4/22/2012 11:42:02 am

Agreed - I've got St. Monica on speed-dial.

Love the point about the dog. LoL. I'll start petitioning St. Francis and St. Roch for ya. ;)

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Colbe
9/14/2012 05:18:22 pm

Have you studied Humanae Vitae together, or the official Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P85.HTM
It's very beautiful, and our actions have to be grounded in that blessed truth about God's plan for us. Your husband is rejecting God's loving rules, which He makes as a good Father to guide us to happiness. Having kids is not just a matter of taste and preference, it's normally part of God's plan for married people. Our culture rips sexuality away from parenthood and destroys it in the process. Your husband is committing a serious sin. A sin is mortal if it is serious (like birth control) and if you know it's serious and do it anyway. No one but God can judge another person's state of mind, so only God knows who deserves Hell for it. Our culture says that's ridiculous, but Jesus talked about Hell and Heaven equally. Who are you going to believe, Jesus or Hollywood? You have good instincts about motherhood, but you said nothing to hint that you are aware of the deadly situation he has put himself in. Don't ever actively cooperate with his contraception, and do pray for him and yourself to put God first. "To them that love God, all things work together unto good" (Romans 8:28).

Lois
7/31/2012 03:58:28 am

I agree with Katherine about prayer. My suggestion would be to tell your husband you would like to go on a pilgrimage to Medjugorje and would like him to come with you. You could take little Vince too.

I am Catholic and have gone there several times. I tell you it has changed my life and the lives of all my friends who went there. (I could write pages on the testimonies about Medjugorje.) You and your husband will receive many special graces for yourselves and yoru family, conversion and a change of heart. (This is not just for Catholics. I know people of other faiths who went there and have wonderful things to say about it.) The Holy Spirit is truly present there. When JPII was alive he sent Cardinal Ratzinger there (undercover) to see what was happening. Cardinal Ratzinger came back saying there are conversions, people coming back to the Church after years of being away, vocations to the priesthood, etc.

It will change your husband's heart and feelings about children. Blessed Mother is truly there and interceding for us.

It was the best thing that has ever happened to me.

God bless you.

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Anon
4/23/2012 08:10:04 am

Sheesh, I just cried and I'm not sure if it's because your situation is so sad, or that your response to it is so loving. Your husband is a lucky man to have such a strong and loving a wife. I'll add my prayers. Sheesh.

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Dianne L.
4/23/2012 08:18:13 am

Natalie (Anon) sent me this link and I agree with her.

I am curious if your husband has read this, or if anyone else in your family saw it (I noticed that a relative responded in your next entry).

I'm very curious to know what kind of response would come from such a deep expression of emotion.

I'm also curious to know if you ever did think about just leaving him to find yourself a man who would be open to children?

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Michelle Grande
4/27/2012 04:39:46 am

This made me cry for how sad it was too. But sad for entirely different reasons.

How can a woman in this day and age become so slavish to a man - even if it's her husband?

How can she then post this publicly as if she's a rolemodel for how other women should respond to this situation?

She hides behind her religious cover and basically blames her own weakness on the church as if the church is holding a gun to her head and forcing her to stay married to a man who doesn't want more kids.

And maybe she's selfish for even wanting more kids. Did you ever think of that? She's got one, and her trying to pressure him into more with this pathetic display of "I'm so sad, woe is me" is bullshit.

If I were her husband, I'd divorce her in a heartbeat. This is nothing but an emotional manipulation and all of you are falling for it. Way to throw the movement back 50 years, "ladies."

Katherine link
4/27/2012 05:37:38 am

Michelle,
I realize that Gina posted this publicly and so inviting comment, but that does not make it acceptable to be rude.

Being slavish is to do the bidding of another because you have no choice. Gina has a choice. She has many choices. She CHOOSES not to leave her husband. She CHOOSES to bear this cross and not because she has to, but because she loves him. If she is "slavish" to anything, it is love and the obligations she has made to her faith, to her husband, to her son and to herself. If that makes her a "slave" may I be the first to say we don't have enough of them!

Gina never said anyone should follow her example. She never applied her situation to anyone else's. That is a pretty unfair assumption you made.

Now, Gina never said she was "hiding" behind her religion nor does she blame the Church for "forcing" her to stay married. She WANTS to stay married. There is a big difference.

Well, it can be selfish to want more children. It can be natural. It can be unselfish. It really depends on a person's motivations and reasons for wanting more children, but you can't assume she is selfish for wanting more children.

Fortunately for Gina, you are not her husband. I suspect he is far more gentle, considerate, and compassionate than you are. I also suspect you would accuse me of "throwing the movement back 50 years" just as much as Gina. My husband and I have had 4 children in 7 years of marriage and are both happily open to having more. I stay home with my children and happily homeschool. Many would say I "set the movement back" but you know what.... the original purpose of "the movement" was opportunity. It was a matter of giving women the chance to have a career, the chance to play sports, etc. To be a liberalized woman is to have choices and if you can't respect my choice to have a large family and stay home with my children or respect Gina's choice for her family, then you are a hypocrite. Authentic feminism is recognizing a woman's right to make her own choices whether or not they are the ones you would make. While clearly you would not make the same choices Gina is making, it is very hypocritical of you not to respect her right to make them and your tone and insinuations say nothing about Gina, but quite a bit about you.

Gina
4/27/2012 06:28:15 am

@Michelle,

Katherine got to your post before I could. Thus, because her response was so spot-on-the-money, I'll refrain from deleting it.

May your fallacious comment and Katherine's intelligent response serve as an example for all the other folks who have been traipsing through this entry assuming the worst about either myself or my husband.

To Katherine... many thanks. :) <3

Catherine
4/29/2012 03:50:16 am

@Michelle Grade
,
A few thoughts on your comment (from a liberated woman)

1- Choosing to remain constant to your spouse in the face of hardship or difficulty is strength, not weakness
2- Abiding by the precepts of one’s chosen faith in the presence of derision and scorn is also strength, not weakness. this is that mythical concept of ‘Practice what you Preach’)
3-The concept of working to maintain a marriage instead of embracing the “disposable spouse” model of modern thought is yet another example of a woman’s strength.
4-The Sex & the City mindset of sleeping with whatever strikes your fancy and moving on when bored does not a Woman make.

CHOOSING to remain in a faithful covenant, CHOOSING to follow my chosen faith, CHOOSING to love my husband and CHOOSING bring forth children of that love has both increased our love for each other, and brought true peace and happiness in our life.

Who are you to mock a woman for her choices? At what point were your choices bandied about and mocked in this forum? Isn’t that what your ‘movement’ is all about? Choice? Well, then sit back and respect those of your sisters.

Michelle Grande
4/30/2012 02:55:51 am

"I didn't fight back against rape because God wanted me to bear that cross."

Is all this religious nonsense so thick for you that you people can't see the problem with her logic?

Does a woman who chooses to stay with her abusive husband when she could simply leave him and find a man who respects her really smell of liberation to you?

This whole thing has "Look at me, I'm such a saintly martyr" written all over it when it reality, she is nothing more than a poster-child for world's easiest divorce. Her own church says they're candidates for it so she doesn't have to tarnish her precious soul.

Gina link
4/30/2012 03:05:31 am

Michelle,

One question: Is your anger at me a product of your own divorce?

I'm willing to bet every cent I have on it.

I wish you peace.

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Jane
4/30/2012 03:12:25 am

I feel like Michelle is on to something. If this were really about you looking to provide an outlet for your feelings, you'd have no problem hitting the delete button now that it's blown up with a chance of spreading back to your husband. Epic guilt trip.

Michelle
4/30/2012 03:14:21 am

If I admit to a divorce, you'll point and blame my argument on bitter feelings. If I say no, you'll just say I'm lying because there's no way to prove one way or the other.

I wish you common sense.

Gina
4/30/2012 03:25:22 am

For the record, I'm able to see that you and Jane share the same IP address.

Catherine
4/30/2012 03:36:08 am

@Michelle-

Please share where you pulled your quote about not fighting off rape...I could find it nowhere in this discussion. Gina mentioned that even a child concieved through the heinous act of rape would still be deserving of life, but I have yet to see any sort of condoning of the act. Violence towards women is an entirely different discussion, well worth having, but not at issue here.
Also not at issue is the decision of a woman to remain with an abusive spouse. I believe the author has taken great pains to point out that her husband is in fact NOT abusive, and is in many other regards a caring, devoted spouse and loving father. Do you keep a stash of those on hand when one doesn't work out for you? If so, please share, I know of a few good women who'd appreciate the info! Lastly, and for the record, the Catholic Church does not advocate divorce, any more that it advocates abuse, misogyny, rape, abortion, or any other aspect downtrodden women. It is one of the few religions where the GREATEST respect for women is to be found.

chux
7/31/2012 02:05:00 am

just stop the pill and get pregnant. the man will adjust to the new reality

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Gina
7/31/2012 02:20:53 am

I don't take contraception, Chux. He does.

Though if I were to get pregnant through some miracle, I fully expect he'd adjust nicely. Heh.

Gina
4/23/2012 08:35:53 am

Ha ha - I guess your buddy just ratted you out, Natalie! No worries, your e-mail is still safe. *Grin*

Anyway, I appreciate the comments and prayers. That's really sweet of you.

Dianne, to answer your questions:

1. John hasn't read this, and I doubt he will. He doesn't really have to. He's fully aware of my feelings on the matter. He knows I wrote about it (I asked his permission since I don't want to randomly post his business up here, either), but it's doubtful he'd ever read it. Blogs aren't his thing, especially since he's 100% aware of my feelings on the matter. We're very honest with one another, so him reading this would be akin to me repeating myself. Ha ha.

The response that came from my original sharing of this emotional outpouring was detailed in the entry itself. He really did say he wasn't worthy of the sacrifice, and I really did imagine myself at the foot of the Cross saying the same exact thing to Jesus.



2. I don't think anyone else in my family saw this. I don't think it'd matter either way (boy am I having the worst case of deja vu). John knew I feel better after having written my thoughts out, so he was content with me doing it this way. He's also "fine" with folks knowing his wishes, but it's not like he advertising them. So if someone happens upon this blog, he doesn't care. I now feel the same way. It's out there, and whoever will happen upon it will happen upon it. I'll worry about it then.

However, I was incredibly surprised and touched by the family member who did reach out to me. Who knows who else might do the same.



3. I never once thought about leaving John. The whole divorce / annulment issue has been tossed back and forth by friends (and even John) on a number of occasions, but I never for a second paid them any attention. I love my husband and do not believe in divorce. Granted, the annulment would technically be plausible given the circumstances, but it'd be illogical for me to pursue one when I'm more than capable and willing to make this sacrifice for the good of our family (that includes Vincent and the children I am no longer able to produce).

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but if I were to force a pregnancy, who knows if John would resent the child. Do I think he would? Not really. In fact, I'm pretty sure he'd be just as thrilled with the second (third or twentieth) as he was with Vincent. His fears blind him to that, but I can't force something that needs to spring forth from love.

Also, an annulment / divorce would do nothing but cause pain to the entire family. I still love him, and he still loves me. We both love Vincent, and until he turns into a teenager, he still loves us. LoL.

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Lenore
7/31/2012 06:03:17 am

This is my only question. If the Church teaches that contraception is a sin in the marital relationship and Gina is going along with it, is not her husband causing her to sin? I find this very interesting. Protestants believe in submitting to your husband as he submits to God. One cannot happen without the other. I would definitely feel a bit wary of consenting to sin. If that is what it is.

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Erika link
4/25/2012 02:42:45 pm

I'm in tears for you...and I will pray for your situation...the only advise I can give you is to fast for your husband so that the Lord softens his heart...<3 HUGS

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Gina link
4/25/2012 03:01:02 pm

Erika, you have my deepest appreciation for such generosity of spirit. I also appreciate the advice. Never hurts to pray through sacrifice, right?

May you be blessed doubly for your thoughtfulness.

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Erika link
4/25/2012 05:06:56 pm

Gina, I found this post because you linked up to the Catholic Blogger's Network: http://www.catholicbloggersnetwork.com/p/weekly-round-up.html

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Patty
4/25/2012 03:12:56 pm

I can not imagine how difficult it must be for you to know that your husband persists in the state of mortal sin by practicing contraception (or abuse of NFP). I would strongly urge you to help him to see the grave disservice he is doing to both you and your marriage by engaging in these actions. I hope you have a good priest who will hold him accountable for his actions. It is admirable for you to love your husband, however when his actions threaten his immortal soul, your role lies in doing everything in your power to avert that eternal consequence which is actions warrant. I know you probably won't post this but from one wife to another, you are enabling his sin if you don't act, so please do everything you can to help him to see the sin in what he is doing.

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Gina
4/25/2012 04:24:49 pm

Thank you for stopping by, Patty. I appreciate the fact that you're worried for both our souls and all, but I think I've got a much better read on the situation.

John is not Catholic. He is atheist, so me attempting to tell him one way or another about how his actions have spiritual consequences is not only pointless... it'd be damaging to our marriage.

This has nothing to do with me going lax in my Christian duty to bring John closer to Christ. If anything (as I clearly stated in the entry), this act of sacrifice exemplifies that which Jesus so willingly offered to us.

And maybe through this sacrifice, he might one day come to understand Jesus.

John is very sympathetic to my feelings on this. He is not arrogant and abusive. He feels terrible that he can't flip a switch and want children. However, he can't flip a switch and I wouldn't force it upon him. Children have the right to being their lives through love, not force, and if we're ever blessed to have another soul entrusted to us, I'll trust that God will ensure his or her beginnings are founded within the marriage embrace.

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Michelle Armesto
4/26/2012 03:35:04 pm

I have to agree with you. I feel that as a fellow Catholic, you cannot put your vow before the God-given rules of the Church. I was in a similar situation, but my husband was abusive and an addict. I tried everything to get him in a good place, but eventually, I realized the harm to my children and myself, in doing so. I pray that something happens soon for him to realize that his actions are putting your soul in danger. God bless!

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Gina
4/27/2012 01:36:26 am

Michelle, his actions do not and cannot put my soul in danger. We am not held accountable for the personal choices of another. That's not how the Catholic view of sin works.

We feel the EFFECTS of another's sin (Mike hits Jen. Mike sinned, Jen didn't. Jen still felt the effect of Mike's sin, but God isn't going to hold Jen accountable for what Mike did). However, we aren't held accountable for them at judgement.

My husband is also not abusive (to me or Vince) - emotionally, physically or otherwise. So while I'm glad you extricated yourself from the situation, it is not comparable to mine in any way.

Blessings to you and yours.

Susan
4/25/2012 03:37:22 pm

My heart truly breaks for you about this, though it is clear that God is using this cross to draw you closer to Him.

Naturally, my burning question after reading this story is: WHY? WHY, after seeing your precious son, and knowing that children are the deepest desire of his wife's heart, would a husband choose to limit his family to just one? I have such severe, debilitating pregnancies that my husband is terrified that we'll become pregnant unexpectedly (again), but I know for absolute certain that if I came to him and said, "I know the cost and I want to have another child," he would sacrifice HIS desire not to deal with another horrifying pregnancy (and that includes not seeing me in awful pain) so that I could have my heart's desire. A desire that he knows, from looking at the love and joy our children have brought into our lives, is an inherently good desire.

I would never advise divorce, either. But I honestly do not know how this situation could not evolve into serious resentment--or at best--profound regret on your part, without oceans of grace. For a woman who feels "Meh" about children, it would be one thing...but you have such a burning love for souls in your heart. Edith Stein said that every woman is called to be both bride and mother and that we will never be happy unless we have the freedom to fulfill both of those roles. For our spouse embrace us as bride while denying us the ability to be a mother seems a gross perversion of what the marriage bond is intended to be. I am so, so sorry if those words hurt you; I don't intend them to at all. But what you have described is NOT acceptable within a sacramental marriage. It strikes me almost as a form of spiritual and emotional abuse, for your husband to make this decision for BOTH of you. It is very hard to read that he knows how painful this is for you but has remained intractable about not wanting more children.

May Jesus bless your husband with much grace. I can only pray that the Lord touches his heart so that he sees how terribly wrong it is to do this to you, so that your marriage can be healed of this unnecessary cross.

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Gina
4/25/2012 04:30:56 pm

Susan, my appreciation for your kind words and prayers. If ever you two are blessed with another, my prayers are with you for a healthy, worry-free pregnancy!

John has been worried about resentment and regret in the past. As I stated above in my reply to Patty, he's not a heartless jerk who is completely uncaring regarding my predicament. He really does wish he could flip a switch and be just as desirous as me, even if only to make me happy.

He's a good man with a good heart. As you said, God really is using this cross to bring me closer to Him. It's already worked in a variety of ways that I'm still in awe over. And who knows? Maybe this will teach John something of the ways of Christ as well. And maybe my experience is meant to form me for other couples struggling with something similar... or couples struggling with infertility... or who knows what? Maybe God's aware of a child in need of a foster home and wants to keep us childless until he or she falls into our lap. Who knows?

I really do trust this is part of God's Will. As Katherine pointed out above, if God wants to make it happen, there isn't anyone that'll be able to stop Him. Ha ha.

Blessings to you. Your words were truly beautiful, and I appreciated reading them.

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AM
4/25/2012 04:10:04 pm

My heart breaks for you - I know this pain. My first relationship ended badly after a late term stillbirth and a daughter, who at the time was 18 months old. After numerous dating failures I met the man of my dreams whom I've now married - he loved my daughter like she was his own, loved me unconditionally, respected me like no man ever had. I realised he was someone that I, that we, could grow with.

However, he didn't want a child of his own and was perfectly happy to just be dad to my daughter. I was devastated - I always wanted his child, from the moment I laid eyes on him, and I could *see* this baby, I swear it - it felt to me as though he was denying this real child of ours life. It felt like a rejection of me, me as a person, a mother, a partner, that he didn't want me to bear his children.

I'd made an uneasy peace with the fact we'd have only one child and I resolved myself to the fact, like you have, that I loved him absolutely and that he was the man I wanted by my side forever, children or not. I hesitate to say it, but we ended up with a surprise baby, due very soon. I didn't trick him - it happened in the most absurd of circumstances. I believe I was bedridden with the flu. I guess in some way, this child decided it wanted to be born. My husband is now excited at the prospect of imminent fatherhood - his fears, mainly financial, are still there, but he's seen the bigger picture. I'll keep hoping, for you, that your children too find a way to be born. If not though, I wish you courage, peace and healing, and a lifetime bond of love that will fill your life long after your son and perhaps grandchildren have made lives for themselves.

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Gina
4/25/2012 04:34:36 pm

Oh AM! My heart goes out to you. No doubt you're ever surrounded by the most brilliant of cherubs.

I'm so glad to hear your story is finding a happy ending. It gives me hope that maybe some sort of happy miracle will happen for me as well (even if I've gotta wait it out in bed with the flu - ha!).

Our pain... our sacrifice... it is never in vain, especially when we gift-wrap it with love. God rewards such trust in His Will and Mercy. I honestly offer this sacrifice with the intention of conversion.

May your delivery be smooth, your angel child healthy, and your family overjoyed and ever-aware of the blessing in each smile. Peace and joy be always yours.

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Paige link
4/25/2012 04:27:10 pm

Thank you for having the courage to post this! I am of the "meh" attitude when it comes to children, knowing full well that in a Catholic marriage, I will end up having some. This terrifies me beyond belief. My husband, on the other hand, really REALLY wants to have kids. Like, yesterday. So in some ways, I think I can identify with your husband. But I also know that to purposely avoid pregnancy forever would be detrimental to my soul and my marriage. Tell you what-- pray that my heart is softened (any woman with the amount of grace and poise in your situation must have a direct line to someone up there) and I will pray to the Blessed Mother that you are given what is best for you-- whether that be another baby or your husband having a change of heart. Maybe we can both come out happy.

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Gina
4/25/2012 04:37:01 pm

Amen, Paige. Be assured of my Divine Mercy chaplet.

And I dunno about any direct lines, but I'm a big fan of the Blessed Mother. I really do just trust that Jesus knows what's best for all of us if we give Him the chance to work His magic. No harm in requesting that the Blessed Mother harass Him for things to fall in our favor every now and again. Ha ha ha.

Thank you so much for stopping by. Please do again so we can compare notes! Ha ha!

<3

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Gina
4/27/2012 03:25:18 am

Oh my goodness - just visited your blog (thanks for leaving the link!). You officially have the best blog title ever!!! Ha ha.

I really like your writing style! Thanks!

Jeanne
4/25/2012 04:43:14 pm

Wow!
I'm sorry if this is too personal, but didn't you talk about family size prior to marriage? Didn't the Priest ask? Does your husband realize he is breaking your marriage vows by not accepting children? (There is not a limit.)
I have a hard time believing your husband knows and understands your feelings on the matter as well as believing your love for him. Love is about sacrafice. Unfortunately it sounds as though he is being molded into a world of worrying about himself first, while completely dismissing your feelings and desires as his wife.
May I suggest talking to an Orthodox Priest on the matter. I cannot see your marriage not taking a lot of heat from the matter. Maybe not now, but when you have to actually realize that your dreams are over. That will hurt far worse than simply assuming he won't budge. Many prayers!

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:04:55 pm

As I mentioned in the entry, yes, we talked about family size beforehand. His ideal family sized changed. Mine didn't.

Yes, he realizes that he's breaking that particular vow, but considering he's not Catholic, it's not exactly the most horrifying situation for him.

I have a wonderful priest who has been invaluable to me over the years. My spiritual director has also given me incredible insight into how best to offer this particular cross. I'm well covered on that front.

Our marriage most certainly suffered as a result of this, but I have to admit that sharing this with one another and fully understanding the sacrifice that's being made has actually made our marriage much stronger.

I realize that will probably sound like hogwash, but it's the truth.

We did Marriage Encounter a little while back, and that's when all of this finally was hashed out. Since that point in time, it's almost as if I've had the veil lifted from my eyes and I truly see this cross for what it is... a chance to offer a true sacrifice of love to John in union with and in reflection of Christ.

John understands my feelings on this, and I understand his. It's why I harbor no resentment towards him. Don't get me wrong... the pain of that darn biological clock does get to me, and I know that come menopause I'll definitely feel intense sorrow, but I know this is what's best for my family.

I cannot and will not force a pregnancy. Children have the right to be formed at conception in a free embrace of love, and if God deems it His Will to ensure that happens, He'll take care of John.

My faith is stronger than his fear. Ha ha ha.

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Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:04:37 pm

Wow! This was like reading my own story. I am the mother of 3 boys (7, 3 1/2, & 7mos.). I myself am from a large Catholic family. There are 7 kids in total and oodles of cousins all the same age that are just like siblings. My husband was raised Baptist and is terrified of the Catholic faith so we don't have the common religious views either. We also discussed before marriage our desire to have lots of kids but his view has also changed in the 9 years that we have been married. I am itching to have another little one as soon as my youngest isn't a little baby anymore. Honestly, I've always wanted a girl and it breaks my heart to think that I might never have a daughter. I too envision what my other children would be like, look like, act like, etc. I wonder if my next would be a boy or girl. Would he/she have blonde hair too? Would he/she love to nurse and snuggle? *sigh* I have a hard time not resenting my husband and his view of no more kids. He's always joking that he's going to get a vasectomy and not tell me. I try really hard to understand his viewpoint but I just don't get it. He goes to work and I am the one that stays at home raising our children. I'm the one that homeschools them, cleans the house, runs the errands, etc. so I don't see why he thinks having another child would be such a hardship for him. The only logical reason I can think of is his age. I am only 31 but he just turned 40. Perhaps when he was younger he envisioned his life at a different place in his 40s? He has told me that he wants all of the kids either out of the house or in high school by the time he retires (he has mandatory retirement at 57) so we can enjoy our retirement years. I get where he's coming from but at the same time I think it's selfish of him to tell God "No thanks. We don't want your blessings. It interferes with my plans." I am one of those lucky women that has problem-free pregnancies and deliveries. I breastfeed, use cloth diapers, and make my own babyfood so he really can't say it's a financial thing. Grrrr It's just so frustrating! Anyway, I will try to remember what you wrote about sacrifice the next time I get upset. Anything to help me through those lonely sad thoughts will help. Thank you so much for sharing your story so I know I'm not the only one out there that grieves over children that I might never meet. You will be in my prayers!

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:07:40 pm

Oh my gosh, John jokes about the secret vasectomy, too! He was doing it while I was in labor with Vincent (I'm not even kidding!).

I'm so happy to hear you've been so blessed with such a wonderful family. My heart holds out hope for you, too, for a little girl! What a complete picture that'd be, huh? :)

Thank you, also, for your prayers. Please know that mine follow you as well. If ever you do get lucky enough to "score a baby" please let me know! I'll pull extra hard for a little girl!!! Ha ha ha.

Blessings to you.

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Annie link
7/31/2012 02:47:10 am

I am thoroughly enjoying this article and comments but I must add that, although you are obviously an enlightened woman and intellligent, the ha ha ha's reveal something. What, I am not sure, but it is annoying to be perfectly honest.

Gina
7/31/2012 02:49:17 am

I would hope they reveal my sense of humor. :) Anything else is a stretch.

Though I'm tempted to put the "Ha's" here, I'll refrain for your benefit. ;)

Brian
8/1/2012 10:09:01 am

Maybe Gina is just too literal like I am. I never write LOL because I'm never actually laughing out loud. I had noticed she used Ha Ha and I appreciated it. Time for a new shorthand for "chuckling silently to myself". Is there anything for that? Otherwise, out with LOL and in with CSTM.

Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:07:53 pm

BTW, I was led here from a FB group I follow: "The Guggie Daily via Unconditional Partners, Unconditionally Parenting" :)

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:10:29 pm

I have never heard of that, but I assume that's where all the recent traffic is coming from...

Wow. My lonely little blog was not prepared for this. Ha ha!

Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:19:36 pm

The Guggie Daily is kind kind of a "crunchy organic" parenting FB group and Unconditional Partners... is also a parenting group that focuses on attachment parenting and marriage while keeping Christ in mind.
I just read your "about" page and I think we could totally be friends! The little bit I read is truly like a page out of my book! It's a shame you live on the East Coast and I'm on the West Coast. We could definitely have coffee and hang out! If you were ever interested, feel free to "friend" and we could swap stories. Hope you have a great night! :)

Gina
4/25/2012 05:32:30 pm

Ha ha - you're so sweet! I would LOVE to hang out and grab coffee! But alas... that darn East Coast / West Coast business does create a problem. I'd just never get home in time to bath Vince!

:)

Are you suggesting "friending" through Facebook? I'm not in my admin account, but if you've got your e-mail listed, I could find you that way!

Brian
8/1/2012 10:05:50 am

Maybe Gina is just literal like I am. I never write LOL, because I'm never actually laughing out loud. Instead I write Ha Ha. I had just noticed that Gina does this too and I appreciated it. Maybe I need to create a new shorthand for "chuckling silently to myself". Out with LOL, in with CSTM.

Charla
4/25/2012 05:06:42 pm

If you feel like John was meant to be your husband, then it is your job to pray and suffer for his holiness in spite of his weakness. And which of us has fully acheived holiness? Turn to St. Joseph.

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:09:30 pm

Your comment states my feelings exactly. John was a gift - I know that. I love him and appreciate him as a husband, father and friend. So if this is what's being asked of me in return, it is but a pittance, right?

Blessings to you. :)

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Jeanne
4/25/2012 05:23:23 pm

I'm sorry- I had gone back and re read and realized you had said that about family size.
I guess my question is just why? Why did his ideal size change? Why is he willing to allow you to carry such a heavy unnecessary cross, why is he willing to joke about a secret vascetomy, knowing your pain?
None of us know your marriage- but Catholic or not- that does not sound like a loving husband. You understand so much about our beautiful faith and write so much about sacrafice- where is his sacrafice?
How would you feel if he told you that his sacrafice is listening to his wife whine about wanting another child? Because that is the type of man he sounds like from your posts.
A wonderful husband gives himself fully to his wife- and trusts that God will provide.
I'll refrain from commenting after this, because I don't want you to feel like I'm scolding you, but you are laying your business out here for all to see- admitting that your marriage can be considered null, and yet your husband is okay with that? Where is the fight for the marriage from him?
I will pray that this blog post is his wake up call. That your desire for more children is fulfilled.

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:30:03 pm

Ha ha, Jeanne, you don't have to worry about me thinking I'm being scolded. You're entitled to your opinions, and as you said, I did post this out there. I honestly didn't think it'd go farther than the few people who typically drop by, but maybe this is the Holy Spirit's way of opening the door to communication for folks in the same boat.

It certainly seems from the commentary that I'm not the only one struggling with this cross.

My husband is kind enough to allow me to vent about this to him. In fact, two nights ago it all came tumbling out. I was a messy bag of tears, and he felt like the biggest jerk in the world for not being able to flip a switch and make himself gung-ho for babies.

He isn't heartless. And in every other regard he is a model husband. He's incredibly hard-working, thoughtful, a perfect father to Vincent, and conscientious of the time I spend volunteering within my parish (even though he thinks religion is a waste of time). He doesn't judge me crazy for my beliefs and is supportive as best he can be.

Please try not to judge him based on this one (albeit large) issue. He truly is a sweet, loving man.

As for the fight for our marriage, he's a heavy weight contender. He's probably done a lot more than I've given him credit for which is another reason we've gone from the brink of divorce to a more blissful state than we saw as dating college kids. God has used this sacrifice to His advantage and even to ours. Even in the midst of sorrow, God can create gold.

I trust that's what He's aiming to do here... even if I can't see it for the flames.

Blessings to you. I truly appreciate your prayers. :)

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Patty
4/25/2012 05:39:06 pm

We see what sacrifice you are making, but exactly what is the sacrifice your husband is making? He sees that this is something dear to your heart and is in fact causing you great emotional pain and yet, unless he 'flips the switch' on his desire to have children, your pain is not important enough to him for him to give you your heart's desire? Does he honestly think he would not love another child of your union? Marriage is about self-sacrifice and sometimes doing things you don't necessarily want to because you love someone. Where and what is his sacrifice?

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Gina
4/25/2012 05:48:45 pm

This is a question I've gotten from those friends who know the situation.

Being the only Catholic amongst them, I can't give my true response. But I'll post it here because, well, this is a Catholic blog. Ha ha.

When John told me that I should leave him because this sacrifice was too much for me, I honestly, truly felt myself transported to the foot of the Cross. I looked up at Jesus, disfigured by Blood, spittle, bruises and a complete dislocation of Limbs. In tears I said the same thing to Him. "No, Jesus, this is too much. Leave me. I don't deserve this much sacrifice!"

There He hung, pushing forward with His Crucifixion anyway. He understood that it was the means for my salvation. He WANTED to give me that sacrifice. He wanted to give you that sacrifice. He wanted to give John that sacrifice.

He did not ask us to crucify ourselves in return.

Thus, who am I to ask John to match my sacrifice with something equally heart-wrenching? Who am I to point the finger and ask him to "pony-up" his share of the sacrifice?

He does an incredible job as husband and father already. He makes plenty of sacrifices for this family. Please try not to judge him based on this lone issue. He is more than a man with fears about subsequent children.

He is a loving husband, a ridiculously dedicated father, and a dedicated friend.

This particular cross has certainly taught me something of Christ... maybe it will have the same effect on John.

Blessings to you. :)

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Laurie link
4/25/2012 07:42:20 pm

I dropped by from Catholic Bloggers Network. I don't know if this helps or not. We had three little ones when my husband became overwhelmed- not that I blame him. For several years, we somehow avoided pregnancy. The year I turned 30, our "surprise" was born. The most surprising thing was that I panicked when I first found out I was pregnant- hubby was calm as could be. After her arrival, hubby, out of the blue, said that we needed to be open to as many children as God wanted to send our way. And that was before we understood the church teaching on being open to life! I won't say many more trials haven't come our way. We lost 8 pregnancies, but did have 3 more children eventually. Being open to life was one thing, but I have to say being open to death is a whole 'nother ball game. God really brought me to my knees on that one! Anyway, pray for your husband (as you obviously are) and trust God- He does amazing things!

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Lauren
4/25/2012 08:42:08 pm

What is it that changed your husband's mind? What is he so afraid of or uncomfortable with about having more children?
Are his feelings about this something he is willing to explore in counceling?

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Gina
4/25/2012 11:20:13 pm

We've gone through this more than enough times. We've reached a logical and workable solution for our family. This isn't something that needs to be discussed with a counselor as we'd end up coming to the same conclusion. We've already done the job of a counselor. We've come to a deep understanding of one another's feelings on this, and no amount of counseling is going to change that.

I'm not looking to change his mind through some sort of intellectual (or even spiritual) argument. The only way John changes is through divine intervention. I really mean that. Anything less would be a disservice to any subsequent children.

As for what changed his mind, I think it was a combination of my difficult pregnancy and the realization that kids are a lot of work. He said something that made sense a while back about loving Vincent so much (and having all the incredible anxiety over every little thing that could possibly go wrong) that he doesn't know if he'd be capable of feeling the same way for another person. It'd be too taxing.

And that, to be fair, is something I've heard from a ton of women as well. It's a normal fear. Couple that with the fear of finances and the fact that we're still pretty much the only friends of ours with children (due to society swearing they're booger infested monsters who suck the life out of you) and boom - perfect storm for not wanting more.

This is not something that can (or should) be forced. I wrote this because I was struggling with the flood of emotions that came after a period of baby-overload. It really was an "urge to purge" through writing. It wasn't meant to be a treatise to alter his perception of children, or even a cry for help so others could change it.

It really was a "If I write this all out, I'll end up feeling better because I'll have a better understanding of the situation I find myself in and who knows? Maybe it'll help someone else who is struggling with the same thing."

Thanks for stopping by. :) My appreciation for yours and all the other comments. Blessings to you!

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Allicia link
4/25/2012 11:23:34 pm

How brave of you to finally hit the "publish" button. I'llbe praying for yourfamily

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Mandi @ Catholic Newlywed link
4/25/2012 11:33:19 pm

I'll be praying for you. That seems like a very difficult cross to carry (and difficult one to share, you brave woman!). Your husband may change his mind.

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Gina
4/25/2012 11:34:33 pm

Thank you, Allicia and Mandi. I really am humbled by the outpouring of prayer on our behalf. Be assured of my prayers in return. May you and your families both be blessed for such spiritual generosity!

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Natalie
4/26/2012 03:01:16 am

Your post was very moving. There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that God can't do....So pray, pray hard, fast, pray the divine mercy chaplet and rosary that your husband has a change of heart. You may be very surprised to find that God moves him. It may take time, patience and lots of prayer on your part but I think God just might soften him up and change his mind. ;-) You, your husband and family will all be in my prayers from now on. God Bless!!! Natalie

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Anna
4/26/2012 04:43:05 am

I'm one of the minority but I am siding with your husband here. He is an atheist. You married him in spite of it. To expect him to abide by the same principles of Catholicism is setting up for failure. I'm sorry your husband made the decision to not have anymore children, but that should have been made crystal clear before your wedding day. Reading through all the comments, I don't see your husband as heartless or selfish. I see him abiding by the principles in which he believes and that you knew when you decided to marry a non-Christian.

Pax.

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Erika link
4/26/2012 05:15:50 am

"Reading through all the comments, I don't see your husband as heartless or selfish. I see him abiding by the principles in which he believes and that you knew when you decided to marry a non-Christian."

Yeah that's fine, Anna, but heck what about her? HE married a Catholic...shouldn't he think of her feelings too?

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Gina
4/26/2012 03:29:52 pm

Apparently you didn't read the article, Anna. This has very little to do with Catholicism (at least on his end) as the number of children we were open to was agreed upon before we married (which you incorrectly implied wasn't the case).

I accept him as who he is regardless of his views on religion, and he accepts me regardless of mine. That isn't even remotely close to the issue at hand, and how you boiled it down to that betrays a very base line of reasoning.

I agreed to accept this sacrifice because I agree with my husband (and the Church). No one can (and no one should) force a child. They deserve to be welcomed into the world with love from the moment of conception.

And I'd like to point out that I never once attacked John in this entry. In fact, I protected him on several occasions because it is very easy to simply point the finger at him. It's not as easy as that, and this is one issue (albeit a big one)... it should not make or break anyone's opinion of him.

I love him for who he is as a man, husband and father, and I respect that his feelings are just as strong and valid as mine.

Brit
4/26/2012 05:38:44 am

Why do his desires trump yours? What reasons for not having more children does he have that are so important that they warrant this sort of sacrifice and suffering on your behalf? Money? Freedom? You say that his reasons are valid and that he wishes he could just flip a switch and feel differently about it all, but the truth is that adults everyday choose to do things that they don't *feel* like doing. He can still choose this, even if he doesn't feel it. It must be very hard to be a devoted Catholic in a sacramental marriage with a person who does not even believe in God. I truly admire your love for your husband and for Christ. Your family is in my prayers.

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Brit
4/26/2012 07:16:03 am

I did not mean for my comment to sound uncharitable earlier. Upon rereading it I realize that it might sound a bit like an attack upon your husband. What I really was trying to express is that there is fine line to walk in life and in suffering. God does not want us to allow others to walk all over us. You can listen to his reasons and worries without accepting them as being reasonable or moral. If you allow him to prioritize his anxieties over you and your moral principles, it will only set you up for more of it in the future. By letting him "off the hook" so to say, you are setting up expectations that he will always be allowed to choose his own feelings over you. I agree with you- divorce is certainly not the answer nor is "tricking him" into getting you pregnant. But you can still say, "I can't accept no for an answer." Marriage is about compromise, not about one person taking on all the suffering so that the other person never has to do anything hard. I feel like I am much like you in this and in the past, had I been in your same situation I probably would have reacted in a very similar fashion. But unfortunately I have learned the hard way that real, Godly love is not just about taking your spouses share of suffering upon your shoulders for the sake of peace, but about holding them accountable when they are in the wrong. He is wrong and there is a loving, charitable way of letting him know that.
Again, lots of prayers for you and your family! Peace and blessings.

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Gina
4/26/2012 03:34:46 pm

Thanks for stopping by, Brit. No worries - I didn't take your commentary in a negative way.

However, please don't think I'm allowing him to walk all over me, either. I agree that marriage is all about compromise, but you can't compromise on the life of a child. You simply can't.

Either a child is allowed to be conceived in the state of love and be brought into the world with nothing but unconditional love or he's not.

I would never - EVER - except anything less for my babies.

Hence, to "compromise" would be John reluctantly "giving me a kid." It's not the most loving way to start of the child's life. All children deserve better.

And I assure you I don't take all the suffering. In this regard, yes. It's my cross to carry. John's got his as well. Remember this is only one area of our marriage that I've opened up about. Much like any other marriage, the facets are endless.

I'm more than capable of holding John accountable for things, and he's great at demanding the same. :) This, however, is not an area in which compromise is possible. You either are fully open to children or you're not. You can't have half a child, and you can't make a child and then expect one person to parent him / her for the rest of his or her life, ya know?

Michelle Armesto
4/26/2012 03:54:18 pm

But, Gina, you are making a grave mistake by repeating over and over again that children should only be conceived in love. That's liberal bs and you know it. It'd be nice if all children could come into a world that is perfect, but unfortunately that is not the case for most. You should want Heaven and true love( only from God) for them. Not death and limbo. I'm done. Praying for your husband.

Gina
4/27/2012 01:27:12 am

Michelle,

Your comment honestly makes absolutely no sense in the world to me.

My belief that children should spring forth from love is LIBERAL? I'm honestly curious as to how you could possibly come to that conclusion.

I'm more than aware that not all children are lucky enough to be the fruit of the marriage embrace. Some are the product of rape, others a drunken night out, and others a mistimed pill or broken condom. While there are about a bazillion ways for a child to come into existence, there is a choice.

And I choose to ensure my children are a product of love. Not deceit, not resentment, and not obligation. Love.

And yes, in a perfect world, that's exactly how it would happen for all children because that's exactly what every child deserves.

Michelle
4/27/2012 04:38:19 am

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/morality/family/nfamp.htm


This is what I mean. It makes sense. Our society is being destroyed by ideas that sex has no responsibilities attached.

Also, rape is a situation where the child was not conceived in the perfect situation, but God allows it. It doesn't mean an abortion is justified. Also, the teen mother that gets pregnant, she did not conceive in a perfect situation. Even Our Lady, she was 14 and unwed, but she made it work ;).

Gina
4/27/2012 04:51:30 am

Michelle,

I'm sorry, but I'm still not getting the point you're trying to make.

Did you mistakenly think that I somehow think sex has no responsibilities attached?

Also, I, myself, used rape as an example in which God can serve to bring a child into the world through less-than-ideal circumstances.

Finally, I (and no one else) brought up abortion. I don't know how that registers into this at all.

Oh, and the thing about the Blessed Mother... she wasn't "unwed" though a lot of people misunderstand that.

In being "betrothed" to St. Joseph, she was technically married under Jewish Law. Jewish marriage was a two step process back then. Betrothal (important part) and then public witness (formality). Kinda like our Church ceremony and then shipping off our papers to the town hall with signatures of our witnesses.

Betrothal was so binding that upon completion of the betrothal ceremony, the woman was considered a wife (and hence if we follow the language used in Matthew back to its roots, we see that he does, in fact, use the term "gyne" or "wife.")

Besides, God specifically sets forth laws for us to follow. He wouldn't break the rules for Himself, especially since He came to serve as our example on how to fulfill the law faithfully in every respect.

It is simply through present-day misunderstand of ancient Jewish custom that we believe the Blessed Mother to have been an unwed mother.

Monique link
4/26/2012 01:10:00 pm

You have amazing courage for finally posting this. I could have written this myself and have even attempted a post cery similar, but I never had the courage to hit publish.
I am a mother of two wonderful children. I wanted more. After my son was born I gladly told my husbnad I wanted 4 more. Sadly, my husband did not want anymore children after our daughter was born. When she was just 2 weeks old, he went and scheduled a vasectomy. He arranged for a friend to take him and pick him up. I pleaded for him to wait and see what the future would hold. For years it hurt our marriage. I was angry and bitter. I resented the fact that he took the right to have children away from me. Two years ago, I had a fellow mom incourage me to pray that God brings us to the same place on this issue. (I even asked for him to get a reversal once) My heart has softened and I have been able to let go of some of the pain.
I completely understand your feelings of happiness and jealousy. I cry inside everytime a friend tells me she is pregnant or I see a new baby. I am excited for the new mother, but saddened that I will never feel the flutter of a new baby.
I will pray for you, can I ask your prayers in return.
Thank you for sharing your story. It helps to know that their is someone else that truly understands how I feel.

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Gina
4/26/2012 03:35:39 pm

Be assured of my prayers, and thank you for yours! {hugs}

I've always been worried John would do that to me, too... ugh. I can't even imagine!

Blessings and peace to you.

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Carri
4/27/2012 01:22:32 am

Dear Gina,
First, thank you so much for your post. This was shared with me by a good Catholic friend of mine (I'm Protestant). She knows my pain - it's very much like yours. My husband and I have one child - I want more and he doesn't. I also identify with the part of your story that my husband and I are meant to be together, to love one another (real love - not loving only when it suits me), in spite of the various painful situations we find ourselves in in this life (and there are plenty, being human and all). What bothers me about some of the responses you've gotten is that people seem to be chastizing you for not getting what you want, not manipulating your husband through religious guilt to get what you want, etc. It just seems like the epitome of American "me, me, me" culture - using your vulnerability and pain to justify manipulating another beloved person into getting what you want. I have accepted my husband's feelings and position - and it has made out marriage stronger. We may adopt or foster a child some day, if God sees fit.

I pray for those folks who encourage you to step out of your relationship with your husband - that's not helpful at all. I do pray that others will come to see the truth of sacrifice - this life is really not about us (though we are part of it). It's about God and what God is up to all around us - and sometimes that includes emptiness, loss, lack, suffering. That's the path of redemption and resurrection - through suffering and death. The gift we have is that we get to rise with Christ. We are Easter/Resurrected people. And thanks be to God for that.

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Gina
4/27/2012 01:31:51 am

Thank YOU - your comment sums up a lot of what I've been feeling in reacting to some of these comments.

The threads that've sprung forth through Facebook are much of the same (with some actually being vicious against either me "holding the women's movement back a thousand years" for not dumping him and moving on, and others completely tossing John under the bus for not railroading himself and our family by "just giving in."

My prayers for you. Adoption / fostering is something John and I have discussed, too.

And who knows? Maybe that is the end reason why we're being asked to carry this cross. Closing this door forces us to acknowledge that a different one is just up ahead...

Blessings and peace to you and your husband. Thank you so much for stopping by! {hug}

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Celeste link
4/27/2012 04:03:05 am

My situation has similarities to yours, and yet is very different. I am a cradle Catholic, and I married someone who was atheist when we met. He was welcomed into the Church a few years before we were married. But that doesn't mean he agrees with, or understands Church teaching. It's been a struggle. Initially we agreed to four children. After number 2 he changed his mind. Then we got pregnant with number three and he was stillborn. It devastated us both. Though my husband didn't welcome our baby with joy, he came to love him with time, hence making the loss terribly hard. We've since had another, but my husband is dead set against more children and would welcome my using artificial birth control, I am certain, to make sure it never happened. My pregnancies are very difficult and I barely make it through each one, another reason he doesn't want to get pregnant again...having to see me go through that. Honestly it scares me to death as well, but I would do it if God called me to. I am aware of Church teaching and the consequences of using artificial birth control and so I have refused. We exclusively practice Natural Family Planning. I can't say my husband loves it. In fact he was suspicious of its effectiveness for many years. We are still avoiding a pregnancy. We have serious reasons to avoid, and this is still within the accepted teaching of our faith. I don't want to force my husband into something that will make him unhappy, however I must follow my heart and my convictions to my Lord. NFP allows me to do both. My husband must respect my choice to practice NFP because he knew ahead of time that was what he was marrying into. He doesn't have to like it, I don't like the idea of him getting a vasectomy (yes, he's mentioned the secret vasectomy too! If he chooses to do that, it is his choice for which he must answer). I am not breaking my vow in my marriage to be open to life, and I'm making sure that I am working with God's natural plan for my body. I see little movements of the Holy Spirit in my husband through my insistence on using it.

I keep praying, it's all I can do right? :) Lead by example. I believe I am in his life for a reason, just as he is in mine for a reason. I think being Open to Life not only means to more children but to whatever Life God wants to bring forth in us as married people and as individuals. I pray for my husband to be open to the Life that God wants in his particular life. More than anything I want him to find Jesus as the source of life, and if he can see that...anything is possible.
I will keep your hubby in my prayers as well.

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Gina
4/27/2012 04:54:20 am

Aw, Celeste, thank you so much for your testimony. What a lucky man your husband is!

You most certainly have my prayers... as does your family. I think some of John's fears regarding future children has something to do with my difficulty with Vincent's pregnancy. But as you say, it's in God's Hands, and I'm content to follow whatever His Will is.

May we both find joy and peace in this... blessings to you.

Oh, and PS - my mother's name is Celeste. I've always that that name to be so beautiful. <3

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Gina
4/27/2012 06:31:12 am

*thought* Darn it.

I've always THOUGHT that name to be so beautiful. Ha ha!

Sylvia
4/27/2012 08:15:27 am

Along the lines of Celeste's comment, I think your desire to love and sacrifice for your husband in this area and to be an example of Christian charity constitutes a serious, and clearly heart-rending, reason to avoid pregnancy--but I do hope and pray that you do so by licit means (NFP). My parents divorced several years ago, and I believe one of the contributing factors was that my dad was not Catholic and they were using contraception. Even on a natural level, contraception drives a wedge between a couple--and for those who are Catholic, the guilt of committing a sin with every marital act is very damaging. I don't mean to preach, but it really is a matter of conscience for you to refuse to use artificial contraception, as a tenet of the faith, and not something you can sacrifice for your husband's sake. Sin is not a sacrifice.

I found your post through a share on Google+, so it's spreading fast! :) God bless!

Joy
4/27/2012 08:13:10 am

Gina,

I am terribly sorry for your pain, not just as a wife, but as a mother, for your child, and for your husband. Your family will be in my prayers. I sympathize greatly as my family has had serious reasons to postpone expanding our family, even though we all want more children as well. That desire and concern of yours is very real.

While I read through your post, I haven't read through every comment, so I apologize if I'm bringing up points that others have already made, and I hope to that point I don't frustrate you.

However, here are my points that I make with great humility and love:

1. You mention that you don't want your children to be conceived in anything less than unconditional love. I will challenge you in expanding your comfort zone since it's not immoral for children to be conceived within a marriage in less than perfect circumstances. In fact, there can be great grace won through this humility, both between spouses and for the children. In bringing up the Holy Family, I want to remind you that Saint Joseph was VERY reluctant to take Mary has his wife upon hearing about her pregnancy, and he actually considered leaving her because of societal shame, doubt, etc. An angel had to appear to him to basically say, "Not a good idea." Wouldn't it be lovely for an angel to appear to your husband??? Anyway, we can pray for those miracles, but we also have to accept that maybe our way, and in this case, your way of wanting every child to be planned and conceived in unconditional love, that maybe God is challenging you to expand this definition unconditional love. After all, as humans, we are all imperfect lovers. In fact, many parents express that sentiment that their love for their spouse and child grow over time. If you experienced this yourself, and your husband has, too, then how can you say you can't have a kid until you've developed the love first? If God can work with us on a mustard seed of faith, then maybe you need to let go of your expectations and accept your husband's mustard seed of love. Even if you have judged that his love is not "unconditional" but he's giving you a mustard seed of love in the direction of expanding the family, then take it! And cherish it.

2. Taking contraceptives is against Catholic teaching, see the Catechism, and JP II's writings on Humane Vitae. Forcing a spouse to take contraceptives is immoral and sinful behavior. You have the right to stand up for your own dignity and demand that love and respect from your husband. You actually have a responsibility to God to do so. When God entrusts lives in our care, such as children (or spouses), we would think nothing of defending their lives, their dignity. Well, God also expects that we do the same for ourselves, that we ensure that no one treads on our dignity as persons, or objectifies us and uses us for sexual gratification. You have every right to say to your husband, "I love you, but I cannot participate in this sin with you. If you choose to get a vestecomy,or continue with other contraceptives, then you're choosing to remain celibate, for I will not have sex with you and participate in the sin since it's violating my dignity, morals, and Catholic teaching." Sex in this scenario of using contraceptives becomes destructive, not unitive. It won't bring you graces, for sin can never bring you graces, but quite the opposite, it will pull you away from your husband and from God. These are your choices. Discernment will tell you if you're making choices out of the best spiritual welfare of your marriage and family, or if you're making them out of fear of rejection, fear of the unknown, etc. However, there is never the excuse for sin. We will all fall short of God's grace from time to time, and thank God for the merciful gift of confession! Prayer will tell you what virtues you need to be strengthened in, what vices you need to overcome, how your situation in life best challenges you to do so. God gave us free will so that we can make these choices. You have the right to stop your husband in his unloving actions towards you. No one is forcing your hand in anything. If we acquiesce to evil, then we are participating in evil, and I venture to say that deep in your heart, you know this is what is causing the greatest turmoil. These are not easy things to hear, I know. And if you need more clarifying information in the ethics of these choices in regards to contraception, I encourage you to contact the Pope Paul VI Institute--Sister Renee Merkes is wonderful to talk to about these subject matters in regard to spiritual direction and ethical dilemmas, and most assuredly will phrase these things and express herself in a much better way than I ever could.

Out of genuine love and respect for you as my sister in Christ, I urge you to contact the Pope Paul VI institute for more information. They also teach a natural family planning method called the Creighton method. Even if there are le

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Gina
4/27/2012 08:35:41 am

Thank you for your comments, Joy.

However, I'd like to point out something really fast so as not to confuse other readers who may be struggling with the same thing.

Withholding sex from your spouse as punishment for use of contraception / sterilization / etc is, in itself, a sin. Birth control and sterilization are walls put up that lessen the connection men and women can achieve through the marital embrace.

Taking it a step further and refusing sex altogether would only worsen the situation and cause an even bigger rift between the married couple.

And for the record, this is something I've gone into at length discussing with both a priest and a spiritual director. Both advised against with-holding the intimacy that sexual relations brings.

Sex, after all, is the renewal of vows. And as I mentioned before, we renew our covenant to one another through the act of sex. We, as Catholics, renew our covenant with Christ each time we partake of the Eucharist.

Though John fails to uphold the "open to life" vow, he holds fast to the others. For as many times as I fail Christ, should Jesus refuse me in Communion?

No... we must continue to strive for unity, connection and love. Just as Christ continues to extend Himself to us though we fail miserably, I would do well to follow His Example and continue to extend myself fully to my husband so that he may one day follow my example.

I am very familiar with NFP and the Institute. The latter is a wonderful resource and I would suggest it to any of the ladies here who struggle with similar issues!

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Catherine
4/29/2012 03:33:50 am

Gina,
James agrees with you on this- you are not he one contracepting, and thus are not sinning. The marital act is two-fold; for unity of spouses and to be open to life. You, by your non-contraceptive nature, and your vocal desire for children are upholding your theological side, and are participating to stregthen your unity with John. Just wanted to bolster you up on that score. St. Monica's one of my favs, and am praying for you guys on this :-)

Gina
4/27/2012 08:40:02 am

Also, as for the children being conceived out of love, I still stand by this.

I'm not saying that God doesn't allow for other methods. Obviously He does. However, I have a CHOICE. My choice is to accept this cross until God melts his heart.

What exactly would my other recourse be? To trick him into a pregnancy? To guilt him into one? To steal his sperm and run off to an IVF center? LoL.

Do you see my issue with that?

Children deserve to be the product of love. That was actually stated by Pope Benedict (I'm gonna go hunt for the exact quote now... lol)

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Gina link
4/30/2012 03:08:04 am

Thanks to both you and James - ha ha. Always a plus to have a strong, theologically sound guy in your corner...

:)

<3

Joy
4/27/2012 08:34:19 am

Oh, that last part got cut off! It should read:

Even if there are legitimate reasons for post-poning a family, and I think you are right in respecting your husbands desire to not expand your family, and only you and your husband can determine what those reasons are, no one on the outside of your marriage can tell you, there are at least moral and ethical ways of doing this through natural family planning, that won't hurt either you or your spouse, or your future children (remember that with the pill, conception is still possible, as well as abortion if the pill forces the shedding of the lining before or after implantation--scary thought!), and are just as effective. See the Couple to Couple League site for utube videos on couples who were on contraception, on the verge of a divorce, and then as a last hope switched to NFP, and now they are closer and happier than ever before. I hope and pray for the same results for your family.

God Bless you in your courage to speak about this, especially while the wounds are still so fresh. Keep up that courage, that perseverance for your marriage. May your guardian angels and Holy Spirit guide you in those inspirations to expand and grow in love for one another out of deference to Christ. And may God Bless you as you seek out guidance, help, and support in this matter.

Here are the websites I recommended:
http://www.popepaulvi.com/naproethics1_Home.htm
http://www.ccli.org/

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Gina
4/27/2012 08:40:40 am

You really are so sweet... my thanks! May the smile of Our Lady follow you always! <3

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shalimamma link
4/27/2012 10:04:35 am

Gina, I absolutely and whole-heartedly COMMEND you for taking such a risk and posting such a deep sentiment of suffering on cyberspace, where people feel they can judge, hate, and condemn you easily because they are not standing right in front of your tear-stained face. That is the unfortunate thing about the internet... however, it is also fortunate, because people like me can get to meet people like you! ;)

Your post is so beautiful because it is so real. It is not fluffy, glossy, look-at-my-perfect-marriage-and-17-perfect-kids-that-I-homeschool type of stuff... (which I find rather boring, because I know it's fake anyway. ;)

A word of encouragement: when people are angry or upset, that is a good sign... it means something is stirring in their conscience, and you tapped into it. They don't hate you or your post; they are wrestling (or trying to avoid wrestling) with something within themselves. Just know that when they are harsh in judgment, they obviously haven't walked in your shoes. It's kind of like when I have turned up in the ER with a severe migraine and a nurse who's never had one says 'have you tried getting some rest and blocking the light from your room?' while I am vomitting on the floor from pain... Gee, no, I hadn't thought of that! LOL! The nurse who has had them doesn't offer silly comments like that. She administers an IV right away and gets me comfortable... It's like this with many other things in life. All the NFP suggestions (and I'm an NFP user) are from people who are blessed with a spouse who goes for that. I am blessed with one of those. I am also blessed with 8 children. But I would never presume that you and I have the same blessings. Or crosses. We all have a unique relationship with God and unique way to get to heaven. I am blessed with a Catholic husband. But that does not mean I don't suffer with deep OTHER crosses that don't have to do with our faith... crosses that make me sometimes not want to get up in the morning. Crosses that tempt me to give up on my marriage.

It all comes down to: NONE, and I mean NONE of us can judge another's heart. Most people mean well, I am sure, even those that are overly critical. But those of us who are not suffering the same cross (which you are bearing so gracefully) simply need to be grateful for our own blessings... and we need to BUILD YOU AND YOUR HUBBY UP!!! I am not saying condoning sin... but from your postings, I can see that you have already communicated your wishes and desires... and you are a person of prayer and a seeker of truth and purity. This is a case where we need a miracle.

And, my guess is that many MANY women suffer with these types of struggles, but don't share them. There is another side to the story... the hubby that wants 20 kids when the wife is about to collapse. And she obeys... just like you do in your situation... What is sad to me is when she or anyone pretends that all is peachy. It is not. Life, and especially the Catholic life, is nitty gritty, like the cross and the dirty apostles. It's not so squeaky perfect. For ANY of us, even the fakers out there who seem to be floating in the clouds of perfection ;)

Please keep up the good and holy work... I think your blog made 'headlines' for a reason. And I can't wait to read more!

One more thing: that son of yours is absolutely ADORABLE. ;)

Love,
shalimamma at www.LifeVictorious.com

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Gina
4/27/2012 01:34:18 pm

Shalimamma,

I don't think I can quite express the appreciation I have for your comment. What a perspective changer. It really did help heal the bruising of today. Heh!

Your insight speaks volumes about your integrity and spirituality. I really have been blessed to have this shot out into cyberspace if only to have found you.

Really - my sincerest appreciation. May you be blessed a thousand-fold.

{Hug}

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shalimamma link
4/28/2012 01:37:38 am

Hugs to you, too, Gina!

I feel SO BLESSED to have found you!! I had a thought when I woke up this morning... I think your post is inspired because now prayers will be coming from all over the place for you and your beautiful family... I am expecting a miracle! And also, now other women (and men) will also perhaps feel free to share or admit or pray for their own situations. God is using you!!

And, in other news... you're on 'the air' this morning at LifeVictorious.com:

http://lifevictorious.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/my-broken-fiat-faithfulness-when-things-arent-so-squeaky-clean/

;)

Love, and a thousand blessings to you,
shalimamma

Todd
5/1/2012 01:06:46 am

Found you through Catholic Dads (http://www.catholicdadsonline.org/posts/9559/on-dark-secrets/)

He did a post on FB and then in his blog. Some of us began our own separate threads, but I think we all heard about it from Rob. If you're interested in putting in your two cents, friend me and I'll forward you the conversation!

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Mark S
5/1/2012 02:04:28 am

I'd like to know if your husband has read this. I saw you said he doesn't have to because you're open (and that's great), but there's something very powerfula bout what you've written here. Maybe you should have him read it.

You said you've done Marriage Encounter, so think of this as a dialogue starter. Heck, my wife and I used it ourselves this weekend. Great for discussing vulnerability, selfishness vs. sacrifice, empathy, and even the veil of anonymity (with how some people have taken liberties to harshly question you just because you posted this online).

We thank you for your bravery and gentle insight. We'll be praying for you. Please keep us updated on how things go. With all these prayers, we're expecting a miracle!

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Gina
5/1/2012 02:26:44 am

Hi Mark!

It's interesting you bring up Marriage Encounter. When this all came to a head a few months back, it was through one of the dialogues on our retreat. Even though I was a bumbling mess, John and I both agreed that upon the release of all those emotions, we felt closer than we'd felt in years.

Honestly, ever since then, we've been two little school kids just happy to be together with each other.

And when this all kinda "came out" again because of the barrage of baby talk, it was in a very "dialogue" type setting. We really don't need to talk about it again because we've pretty much got everything out into the open.

I'll talk about it when it gets too much to carry alone sometimes, but beating a dead horse will do nothing but make him feel like a jerk, so that's why I attempted to just shoot this out into the black hole of cyberspace. Ha ha.

I'm so glad this served as a convo starter for you and your wife. I have to admit laughing when I saw that. I never, in a million years, would've expected a blog entry of mine to spark a M.E. Dialogue. Ha ha ha ha. Bet my retreat leaders would be mightily impressed.

Thank you so much for your prayers. I promise to update about this from time to time. Blessings to you guys. You have my prayers!

Gina link
5/1/2012 02:22:16 am

Hi Gentlemen! Thanks for dropping by.

Thank you, Todd, for pointing me back to Rob's page. I don't see any discussion on his particular thread, but I have to admit being curious to what's being said on your FB threads. As men, I have no doubt you'd be able to provide insightful and unique perspectives that may very well have us ladies shift our thought-process some.

I am not accepting friend requests right now, though. My apologies - nothing personal - it's just that I'm obviously "friends" with my husband there, and I don't want to run the risk of having people attempt finding him in order to shoot angry laser beams his way, ya know?

Blessings to you! :) Please pass along my gratitude to Rob and the others who have taken this topic to heart. My appreciation for your thoughtfulness. I'll remember you guys in my prayers.

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Margaret S.
5/1/2012 08:07:59 am

I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to direct you and your readers to this site for a reflection on contraceptives. I think it'd be very useful for this entire debate. Prayers for you.

http://www.catholicsistas.com/2012/04/24/why-contraception-will-never-be-permitted/

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Gina
5/1/2012 08:13:29 am

Catholic Sistas! I'm a follower of their blog(s). Thanks for the link. Hers was a really nice entry with a lot of good stuff. I think it would be very beneficial to those looking to understand why contraception simply is not an option for us from a theological standpoint (and honestly, from a loving one).

I'm a huge fan of her caption under the stork picture, BTW... lol.

Thank you for the post and the prayers. May you be blessed!

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Thadeus
5/2/2012 07:51:07 am

I came across your post through the blog "Catholic Dads." I VERY much appreciate you sharing on this very vulnerable topic. You have put it very well and spoken truth about love and suffering and sacrifice and Jesus.

May His blessings be upon you and your family forever.

Peace.

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Gina link
5/2/2012 08:20:20 am

Thanks, Thadeus. That's very sweet! I appreciate your well-wishes. Please know I return the same to you and yours!

<3

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friedafx
5/2/2012 08:17:05 am

ur tagged on reddit

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Staci Morgan-Stinson
5/8/2012 03:21:04 am

This is up on The Nut House forums. I also saw it on a friend's facebook page, too.

A point that doesn't seem to have been raised by any of the other commentors: You never really told us how your husband responded to your points about siblings. Did he have an answer for how your kid would handle your deaths? How about memories of growing up with them and being jealous of other kids who had brothers or sisters? Does he think he can say no to him when he starts asking? Has he (your son) started asking?

And I get that you think trying to trick him into kids is wrong and all, but wouldn't the end justify the means in this case? A quick needle through the package and no one would be any the wiser.

What happens if you do get pregnant (even by some crazy accident of sorts). Does he divorce you because he thinks you did something wrong? Does he disown the kid because he didn't want it to begin with?

There seems to be more wrong with your husband's logic than you glossed over.

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Gina
5/8/2012 04:54:31 am

Hi Staci - thanks for dropping in (and for letting me know where you're coming from!).

John's reaction to the idea of siblings has always been "Eh... he'll live." He points out that plenty of other sibling-free kids turn out A-OK, and regarding death, that's the only time I actually saw John's thought-process get stopped in its tracks. When I brought it up again later, he said, "Vince won't have to worry about any of that stuff because it'll all be taken care of by me."

I said, "John, I'm not just talking about the financial burden of caring for elderly parents or paying for their funerals... I'm talking about the emotional toll" to which he replies "friends and other family members."

*sigh*

Vince hasn't started asking, and it's doubtful he will anytime soon. Honestly, he is speech-delayed because he was practically deaf for the first two years of his life. It's only in these last few months (after having surgery) that words have begun tumbling from his sweet little lips!

If we do become pregnant by some miracle (one can hope, pray and beg!), I have no doubt he'd quickly accept and be overjoyed for this child, too. He was wary of Vince when I first became pregnant but within minutes he was bouncing around the world proudly proclaiming his parenthood.

I think there might be a brief "What the heck did you do to force this?" but considering how open and honest I've been about this whole process, and even my own denial of children unless they are conceived properly with love, he'd discount that and accept that I was innocent of the matter.

So no needles through packages and no attempts to get his drunk and rape him while he's non-the-wiser. Ha ha ha.

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Staci Morgan-Stinson
5/8/2012 04:57:30 am

Do you think if your son asked him he'd have any change of heart? It's really hard to deny your kid something like that! And wow you answered fast. Nice to see someone who moderates their stuff in a timely fashion.

Gina
5/8/2012 05:00:01 am

I get e-mailed every time someone comments - makes it super easy to read and respond to folks.

Plus, I know what it's like to comment on other's blogs and feel ignored. I don't ever want people to think I don't appreciate their commentary. I do, I do! :)

Autumn
5/8/2012 04:37:58 am

I'm truly sorry for your pain and know it must be a rough road you've traveled down thus far. I adore how respectful you are of your husbands wants and don't discredit them as any less valid then your own.

A thing that I noticed was that you are telling people 'some day' and then looking at your husband outside while his conversations with the men are different. I ask why don't you tell them "We've decided that we will not have any more children." To me it would prove to show that you are both unified in this family decision. Which I can certainly understand hurts you, but to me it just makes things worse by saying 'some day'. I know you don't want to 'out' him and you don't have to if your present it to family members (provided you want to share with them) as a unified front that you both will not have any more children.

I also do not thing that this is something that you should have to carry by yourself. Being married means you go through things together arm, in arm. I hope he's very sensitive to the heartache this topic brings you. I also think that perhaps counseling may help you both. With something as 'big' as this it's hard to 'fix' things yourself. Counseling would provide you both with an open forum where perhaps you can both gain tools to help you cope and to ensure this doesn't affect your marriage in the furutre. Harboring pain such as what you wrote can only really build, it shouldn't be something that you should have to feel for the rest of your life. At one point there will be acceptance (from one of you).

I wish you both all the best and admire your strength but also your husbands for being so open and honest with you. That to me is such an amazing attribute and speaks volumes about the relationship the two of you have together.

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Autumn
5/8/2012 04:39:54 am

FYI: This is posted on www.tnh.proboards.com

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Gina
5/8/2012 04:49:01 am

Hi Autumn,

Thank you for stopping by (and for letting me know from where!). I realize the commentary is insane, so forgive me if I repeat myself a bit.

My husband is 100% aware of how much this affects me. We are both very open and honest about it which (surprisingly) is why we are so close. For as much damage as this aspect of our relationship has done to our marriage, finally talking about it being honest with one another is the salve that healed us and brought us back to our "college sweetheart" days.

So in that respect, we do shoulder this together. I just don't like to constantly bombard him with how much it bogs me down, ya know? Writing it here is therapeutic in that sense. I have him when I really need to speak on it, but when I can get away with shooting my thoughts into oblivion, all the better for us. Ha ha.

Also, I say "someday" because there is always the off chance that God will perform a miracle for us. God forbid my foolishness gets in the way of the Holy Spirit, ya know? ;)

Besides, if I were to simply say "We've decided not to have anymore..." I know exactly where the conversation would go. It wouldn't be pretty, it'd probably end up being brought up more than it's currently brought up, and folks would take it as a sign that we were headed for divorce, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously - I think we both know it's best to simply leave that one go. Ha ha ha. As John said, if they find out, they find out, but who in their right mind would want to poke the hornet's nest if they don't have to?

Blessings to you for your generosity of spirit. I appreciated your comment. Thanks so much for stopping by! {Hugs}

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Amber Keenan
5/10/2012 01:03:40 am

You two should seek counseling for something like this. My husband and I faced a similar issue with adoption, and it was only through therapy that we were able to trudge our way through these feelings. Obviously your emotions are too strong to remain stable, and obviously his selfishness isn't caving any time soon. As you said, this isn't a compromise you can make, so you have to go to therapy in order to either come to terms with your emotions or have him get past his selfishness. PM me for a good therapist. Found you through TNH.

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Gina
5/10/2012 02:21:31 am

Hi Amber, thanks for stopping by.

The goal of any sort of therapy is to explore emotions and find the root issue that serves as catalyst for various behaviors. Armed with that information, people can then work to find common ground based on mutual understanding, yes?

As you can probably glean from my entry, I am a very open, honest person who FULLY explores my emotions and how those emotions effect those around me. I don't need a 3rd party to help me accomplish those ends.

John, too, is very open and honest with his emotions (probably more-so than me). When we talk these things out (which we do often), it keeps us on the same page. We communicate lovingly and with empathy, so we don't need a "middle man" to redirect, calm or diffuse anything. Considering we're both insightful people, we're also pretty good at pointing out different perspectives / triggers that the other person might not have thought of.

Finally, I HAVE come to terms with my situation. Just because I still have strong emotions doesn't mean I'm not stable.

I mean, think about it - if you lose your mother after an intense battle with cancer, you understand she's in a better place, and you understand she's not coming back. It hurts, and it will continue to hurt. There will be days in which that loss will be felt more acutely than others, and just because you confront those emotions publicly, it doesn't mean you're unstable. It means you're human and you need an outlet because the very human emotions you're experiencing are becoming too much.

Also, and I realize that no one seems to agree with me on this, but John's not necessarily being selfish. A quick spin on perspective could say that he's being generous to Vincent. Refusing children ensures he's got more money / time to devote to the child he DOES have, ya know?

I don't agree with that stance, but I understand it. It is just as valid as my stance that having more children doesn't mean stealing away time or money from Vince.

He understands my POV as well, which is why he's able to empathize with me and why he shoulders feelings of guilt about not being able to willingly provide the children I desire.

So again, while I'm thoroughly glad therapy worked for you and your husband, it isn't necessary (or even right) for all couples. Especially couples who have reached a point in their relationships where they're able to be open and honest with themselves and one another.

Blessings to you.

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Gina
5/10/2012 02:25:15 am

I should mention, however, that we did try therapy for a time. While we were given some entertaining exercises to try, they were ultimately pointless as we were already well beyond the realm of "explore your feelings and be honest with one another about them."

And considering the fact that we really are just as happy and loving as we were back before we got married, what exactly would the point of therapy be?

A good therapist isn't there to force one spouse to agree with the other. A good therapist is supposed to help both parties understand each other (and themselves) better in order for the couple to grow into better communicators (thus fostering a more stable, loving relationship).

Gina
5/10/2012 02:27:27 am

I should mention, however, that we did try therapy for a time (I think we did like 5 or 6 sessions?). While we were given some entertaining exercises to try, they were ultimately pointless as we were already well beyond the realm of "explore your feelings and be honest with one another about them."

And considering the fact that we really are just as happy and loving as we were back before we got married, what exactly would the point of therapy be?

A good therapist isn't there to force one spouse to agree with the other. A good therapist is supposed to help both parties understand each other (and themselves) better in order for the couple to grow into better communicators (thus fostering a more stable, loving relationship).

shalimamma link
5/10/2012 03:31:31 am

Helloooooo! ;)

I needed to weigh in on this particular comment...

Gina, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My hubby and I probaby SHOULD have gotten therapy for OUR darkest secret which I haven't written about yet on my blog (oooooh... something exciting to come!) but we were actually advised not to. We tried Marriage Encounter, too. I communicate TONS. I am a steam kettle. Hubby: not so much. But even with only ONE of us communicating lots we still worked out HUGE problems. I do think therapy works for some people... But I have become convinced that all that 'talking and chatting about every emotion' (aka, would you say your anger is like a shade of red, or more like pink?' Lol!) is NOT necessarily so manly... again... just my experience with my man... and we have come through some major difficulties parallel to Gina's.

I also have 4 boys (in addition to my 4 girls) and I don't want to raise up pansies. When they are frustrated, I have them go throw something outside or go run or go dig a hole. Do we need to explore every inner emotion? They're baffled by it anyway, and we women are much more gifted in that area. My 3 year old daughter knows more about her feelings than any of my boys combined with their father, all together. Of course, boys need to learn compassion, forgiveness, and kindness (which is honorable), and my boys cry at times. My hubby will get a tear in his eye when he sees our baby or somthing touches his heart (SO sweet). But we don't have hours long talks about feelings anymore. When I tried this with my hubby (for YEARS) it frustrated both of us. Now we talk for hours sometimes, but we don't go on and on like we're at a couselling session, and both of us come to good conclusions (most of the time ;)

Gina, your relationship with your hubby is leaps and bounds ahead of many, probably even mine and my hubby's. I love that you both communicate so much. That is amazing. I think in our society we can overcomplicate things. Some things are CROSSES and we can't cure them (especially if we want to become a saint.) Please remind me of this when I hit my next road block. Lol. But seriously, it is true, and something I have needed to accept. I wanted to 'solve all of my hubby's flaws' and even all of my own, when I realized that life in holiness is actually not like that. It's not so squeaky clean. It's messy, but simple really. This is the cross God chose for you right now, and He (and Our Lady) are helping you bear it. God chooses funky crosses sometimes that make me throw my hands up and go "WT...???!!!" But in the end I go, Ok Ok... Here I am, Lord.

I kick and scream all the way of course, but nobody ever said you needed to skip and whistle while bearing a cross ;)

Love and hugs, Gina,
Shalimamma

Gina
5/10/2012 04:27:22 am

Apparently deep, dark secrets are exactly what any blog can use to spruce up interest. LoL.

In all seriousness, though, make sure your husband is A-OK with you broadcasting it. Who knows if it'll get back to him that it's out there in cyberspace.

I agree with the idea that some crosses are just that - crosses. You can't expect to "cure" them, and you certainly can't go skipping along whistling under the weight of them. Thanks for the reminder. That's a great point!

I laughed when you said you send your boys out while they're frustrated to "go throw something." LoL. Nine times out of ten, that works for me, too!!!

My husband is definitely the more emotional out of the two of us. I'm very logical and detached from emotions which is what made the two of us butt heads on this so often. When I finally was upfront about these things, everything clicked. So yay on that front.

Hugs to you and your husband. Seems like with 8 kids and a farm full of animals, you guys have things organized and smashing! :) Incredible. Any word on that chrism soap? I must've been telling everyone and their brother about it... YUM!

Lauren
5/10/2012 02:42:56 am

OMGawd with the therapy already! WTF is it with women and this need for therapy for everything? Doesn't enyone know how to take care of their own problems anymore? Dayum! Stop watching Housewives of NY, OC or Whinesville and you might figure out that you can solve things without doctors, lipo or alcohol. GAWWWD!

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Gina
5/10/2012 03:13:26 am

Says the woman who spends at least a dozen hours a week watching shows like Addiction, Toddlers and Tiaras and John and Kate plus Eight. LoL

And for the record, therapy is a great resource for some people. I won't say our time with Dave was completely wasted, but we aren't the rest of the world. I honestly think our ability to communicate so honestly with one another is rare.

Sometimes therapy is the BEST answer for folks unable to communicate or reach common ground. It's just no in our case (and apparently not in yours - heh).

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shalimamma link
5/10/2012 03:36:08 am

Sorry, but Lauren, you crack me up. I am going to use "Dayum" in a future writing... Lol! (For the record, I love alcohol, and need lipo... but my favorite therapy is chocolate. ;)

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Lauren
5/10/2012 04:13:06 am

Yessssssssss. Chocolate solves everything! Those meltaway Dove squares are like tasty little clouds of Heaven.

Gina link
5/10/2012 04:18:14 am

Ha ha ha - oh my goodness, don't feed the trolls, Shalimamma!!!

*Grin*

Lauren's favorite therapy involves 80's memorabilia. She's just testy because not everyone finds the soothing sounds of Milli Vanilli to conquer all problems of the heart. ;)

Lauren
5/10/2012 04:08:14 am

I adopted the term from Gina, shalimamma. She used to use it in her cussin' days as a way to skirt the chat system from banning her for her pirate mouth! None of you ladies would ever guess that about her pious little soul now, would you? Hahahahahhahha

And so what if I like Addicted? JK+8 isn't on anymore, and TnT is a guilty pleasure. I admit it. See? If I didn't watch Addicted, I wouldn't know that the first step to overcoming stupidity is admitting you know you got a problem. Don't hate! :-p

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Gina
5/10/2012 04:19:17 am

Let's leave my potty mouth out of this. *blush* Though I think I might have to adopt the term "pirate mouth."

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Cam link
5/13/2012 12:09:35 am

Oh Gina! Hugs!

You are handling all of this so gracefully! I can't even imagine how not sacrificially I would be handling this situation (but I know it wouldn't be pretty!).

Maybe... if Vincent ends up being called to the vocation of marriage... he'll be like me. I am basically an only child (my mom's only. I have a half sister who's 11 years older who moved out when I was in preschool.) and that is very much is a key part of what led me to want a large family (although in the beginning the idea of even one was pretty scary for me too!).

And prayers that this is something that changes over the years (or better yet much, much sooner) for your DH. You're an amazing wife doing something that, as the negative commenters can attest to, is uncommon and beautifully sacrificial in our self centered culture.

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Gina
5/13/2012 02:12:52 pm

{hugs} Thanks so much for those prayers!!!

I have to wonder how your own family reacted when they realized you guys wanted a larger family... ha ha!

But what a wonderful one you're growing. <3 Blessings always, Cam. You are so sweet!

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Karen Edmisten link
5/14/2012 01:51:35 am

Hang in there. :) I've lived similar things -- not exactly the same, as no two crosses are ever the same -- and you're in my prayers. God bless you and may you feel Him carrying you through all of this ...

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Karen Edmisten link
5/14/2012 01:52:18 am

p.s. I found you through a Google+ post as I was attempting to catch up over there.

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Ashley
6/20/2012 09:19:36 am

I just have to say how moved I was by this! I was also challenged to really think. Right now, I am the one who isn't sure if I want more children or not. (I am currently pregnant) all this time, I have figured "we have time to figure that out, right?". But maybe we don't. I feel like I really need to reflect and think about my child's future life as well as mine and my husband's. I so appreciate that you have opened up like this! I have never read your blogs before, but a friend from another blog site directed me to this blog, specifically and I am very glad to have read it! Recently, we were engaged in a discussion on our blog site, about what we would do if we wanted a baby and our husbands decided (after trying for quite some time) that it was too difficult to go through more and just gave up on children all together. It was interesting to see the responses, and this post just summed up my feelings on the subject so beautifully! :)

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Gina link
6/20/2012 09:23:15 am

Hi Ashley,

Congratulations on your pregnancy. I wish you all the best! How far along are you (if you don't mind my asking)?

This sort of decision really is tough, so you and your husband will be kept in my prayers. I'm glad you gained something from both the blog and the commentary. I really am. Thank you for such sweet feedback.

Also, which blog site directed you here? I always like to send a "thanks" to anyone who felt my entries were worthwhile enough to pass along. It's much appreciated.

Blessings to you, your husband, and your little one. :)

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Ashley
6/20/2012 10:04:06 am

I know I'm like, way behind on the response here, but I'm from the nuthouse! Lol saw you commented over there too. I haven't been on in a while and just saw this today! Anyway, I'm 15 weeks now. And thank you for your prayers! That is very sweet of you! :)

Gina
6/20/2012 12:35:37 pm

Nutties are always welcome here. Ha ha.

Susan Adams
6/29/2012 10:22:11 am

Gina- thanks for such honest sharing. I will certainly keep you in my prayers and your comments have helped me to be more sensitive to our Churches teachings and how difficult the situation can be for husband and wife.

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Jean
7/18/2012 04:31:21 am

This is horrible. I'm sorry your husband won't give you more children, but you've made your bed. Posting this publicly to garner so much attention is a passive aggressive way to get what you want. Also posting it under the guise of being a pious catholic hurts those of us who understand that some situations call for divorce and annulment. You are providing a bad example for other women who face a similar situation. You don't stay in a marriage that is emotionally abusive, and that's what this most obviously is. He is emotionally abusive, whether you want to remain blind to that or not.

Reading the comments, I'm in the minority, but someone needs to speak with some common sense. I would caution you to remove this for a variety of reasons. I'm truly tempted to e-mail back the person who sent this to me (and CC the rest of the list) to highlight exactly how wrong this is. I hope you seek help and annulment.

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Gina link
7/18/2012 05:06:32 am

I get that I posted this publicly. I get that opens me up to criticism. I even get that some folks, like yourself, attempt to provide that criticism with the best of intentions.

However, here are some things you might not be privy to, which ends up making your 'read' on the situation incredibly wrong.

1. Yes, this is a public blog. However, until this entry found itself on Facebook, my traffic was around 80 hits per day. I felt relatively safe that my blog was a personal, semi-private diary that was only shared amongst a small circle of people who shared a similar mind-set.

Now that my traffic is upwards of a thousand hits per day (still not huge, but WAY more than I'd ever anticipated this blog seeing), I can understand why you'd want to caution me against leaving this up if it'd confuse others.

That brings me to point number 2.


2. It shouldn't confuse anyone, but if it does, I hope it's for the best. My entry wasn't meant to direct anyone to or away from annulment. I could write a "how to" or "about" entry any day. This was a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that I wrote out because I needed a therapeutic release. It wasn't meant as an educational tool. It wasn't meant as a "how to" manual. It was a personal expression of a very personal experience. I've never stated (here or elsewhere) that my situation could - in ANY way - be applied to anyone else (even if their situation held similarities to mine).

Thus, why would I remove something that does not confuse Catholic morality? If anything, my response to this situation falls 120% in line with Catholic teaching on marriage. So if it confuses you, might I suggest a refresher course on the vows of Sacramental Marriage?


3. I make no claims to be a pious Catholic. However, that's a typical claim from folks. Why? I think it's because of a personal reaction to whatever was read.

Example:

When Bob sees Sally act in a manner that forces him to question his OWN behaviors, instead of following that self-reflection through, he turns on Sally who served as catalyst for his self-reflection. Instead of accepting the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there was a better course of action, he angrily stamps his foot and complains that Sally was simply acting in an exaggeratedly moral way (meaning Sally's action wasn't really moral so much as a facade of moral).

This relinquishes Bob's responsibility to own up to the possibility that, when faced with a similar situation, he may not have chosen the best response.


4. My husband is NOT emotionally abusive. I've explained this in countless ways over three other entries. Doubtful you'll come back to read this let alone read my other responses, but if ever you do stumble your way back here, feel free to peruse.


5. I don't appreciate the insinuations you haphazardly made, and I don't appreciate you attempting to make this entry into something it's not.

Feel free to fire off a disgusted e-mail to your friend and all others who have read this entry. I honestly hope they come back here and read my response to your allegations so that any confusion YOU brought to them can be allayed.

I would have sent you this message privately, but you left no e-mail with which to contact you. So I apologize that this had to be public, but I was left no real recourse. I didn't want to just delete the comment because you brought up points that others might've thought of as well. It's fine to hold opinions that differ, and it's even fine to think I'm out of my mind for my response to this situation.

It's NOT okay, however, to falsely accuse me of leading others astray, to accuse my husband of being abusive, and then to suggest I remove content from my own site...

Pardon me, but common sense dictates you're well out of line.

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Cam link
7/18/2012 06:04:36 am

I'm not sure how another person assuming what the Church assumes, that all marriages are held to be valid until proven otherwise, would somehow effect the case of those who have cause to seek an annulment. That seems a little out there to me. Do you really believe that members of the tribunal go around looking for cases of women who don't seek annulments for reasons that others do, and say: "Well if she or he did it, so can you!" The idea is ridiculous.

Gina is a beautiful example of someone who takes her vows seriously.

If you were a regular reader of this blog, you might have found yourself responding with a bit more charity...

I know that I have wondered if Gina's DH's worries about her health come into play when he thinks of future children... Her post on her accident, and subsequent pregnancy and the extreme pain and difficulties that she experienced would likely make many men balk, and would certainly be considered by many Catholics to be a serious reason... now we all know that both spouses are supposed to be agreed on what a serious reason is... but after that post I did wonder if he wasn't apprehensive about seeing her go through that type of pain again. After all, it's very hard to watch someone you love suffer, and often it's even harder than it is to endure suffering yourself.

I have no idea if that plays a part in this, but I think it's certainly more charitable to assume the best in a person's motivation, rather than accusing them of being emotionally abusive.

I don't think you spoke with common sense. I think you spoke with a lack of charity that said much more about you than it does about Gina or her post. I don't think Gina is the one who needs help here. She's not the one hiding behind the computer screen to project her own situation on someone she doesn't know. She's sharing her experiences as a wife and mother, loving through a painful situation.

Thank you again Gina for your beautiful blog. Hopefully you can ignore the nastiness of people who don't know you, but would like to direct your life after reading 1000 words on one page.

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Gina
7/18/2012 06:21:16 am

{hugs}

I really have no words.

Dom
7/18/2012 06:05:57 am

(In wonder) My goodness, aren't you judgmental. We don't always get what we want in this life, or in our marriages, but that certainly doesn't mean that we're necessarily being abused. Nor does it mean that we're being passive-aggressive when we dare to share our pain on the fact, and it most CERTAINLY doesn't qualify us to divorce ourselves from the situation just because it's not what we thought we signed up for. If that were the case, that 50 percent marital failure rate would rank in at a hundred, and the word 'commitment' might as well be erased from the vocabulary of humanity altogether, never mind the words 'prayer' and 'miracles.'

We Catholics go into marriage with the hope of, and the avowal to be, a means of our partner's salvation - and none of us come to heaven by means of the wide and easy road. If we all married only perfect people, the species would have died out as soon as it began. To give up on each other because of our imperfections and fears is to give up, too, on the Presence of God in each other, and yes, on God Himself. Who knows what graces will be birthed from these struggles between John and Gina? No one knows but God, as of yet, and as they were made one on their wedding day, as long as one of them is with Him, He is with them both.

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Gina
7/18/2012 06:22:18 am

"To give up on each other because of our imperfections and fears is to give up, too, on the Presence of God in each other, and yes, on God Himself."

Dom, that's beautiful.

Nicole P.
7/18/2012 07:28:09 am

Your response aggravated me for a number of reasons:

1) Gina didn't post this as a "passive aggressive way to get what (she) wants." She posted it as a cathartic expression of a tough situation she's been handling for a while. She also asked her husband his opinion BEFORE she posted it, so he's fully aware that it's here and it wasn't posted to change his opinion.

2) The same goes for saying she posted it "under the guise of a pious Catholic." It's an expression of her life and how she personally chooses to live with it.

3) It's also not a "bad example for other women." Nowhere does she say "This is how every woman should act, especially if she wants to be a good Catholic." My mom told me that she never used a car seat when I was a baby. It doesn't mean that she expects me to not use one with my daughter.

4) On what planet would Gina's husband be considered emotionally abusive?? He didn't make a one sided decision and tell her she has to stay there and suck it up. They had adult rational discussions detailing why he feels the way he feels. If you had bothered to read any other posts, you would know that he told her he would understand if she wanted to leave. Gina has CHOSEN to stay with him. Is it an easy decision? No. But it's HER decision. If she was staying in the marriage against her will, then I could see your point. Sadly, you're wrong.

5) Telling her to seek an annulment just shows that you haven't read any other posts ( and I get e feeling you just skimmed this one).

Go ahead and tell your friends how wrong Gina is. I certainly hope it makes you feel better so that you don't come back and post more uninformed, incorrect information.

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Mary Ellen
7/18/2012 08:13:44 am

The term for a post like this is, I believe,

"PWNED"

Gina
7/18/2012 08:15:17 am

Ha ha ha ha ha ha - thank you, Mary Ellen. I was trying to think of how best to respond to Nicole's post, but I can't put it any better than that.

@Nicole - what she said. Totally what she said. Times about a thousand.

{hugs}

M
7/18/2012 07:20:37 am

I think you are very brave and I understand the pain you are in. We had to make the decision to let our homestudy lapse and after we made the decision (and if came just a couple weeks after our oldest daughter ran away and was missing for days) I started to regret it, but my husband absolutely does not want more children while our oldest is still at home. This means that by the time she's out of the home, I will be over 35 and don't feel it would be responsible to TRY to get pregnant, so likely I will never experience a pregnancy. Although I feel lucky that I don't have to wade into the contraception debate with him, because we would need medications to GET pregnant rather than NOT to get pregnant.

So I do feel your pain, and I'm glad I'm not alone...

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Gina
7/18/2012 08:17:03 am

{Hugs} M. You've got my prayers. Your husband, too.

However, I have to admit being glad to hear your daughter was found safe! What a scary experience!!!

I once ran away when I was a kid. Looking back, I could smack my younger self senseless for the fear I must have caused my mother.

Double {hugs}

Blessings to you and yours. Thank you so much for your kindness.

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Kellyann Martin
7/19/2012 03:08:15 am

Gina,

First, let me apologize for Jean's comments. I'm the person who sent out your link. I spoke with her after reading both her comments and yours. Let me assure you she didn't mean harm by anything. She is divorced, so she admits that some of what you said is true. She did feel a bit attacked by your notion of sticking things out even when everything seems impossibly stacked against you.

Obviously you weren't posting this to attack anyone, and obviously you made a personal decision that was right for you and your family. I commend you for it, which is why I sent out your blog to my friends. It takes an incredible amount of poise and bravery to post something like this so eloquently for others to read. My thanks, and I'm sorry I didn't send you a note before.

This blog came across my facebook feed about two weeks ago, and I've been thinking about it ever since. This is one of those things that when you read it, you never quite forget it. It stays in the back of your head for years and years. I mean that in a good way.

Back to Jean, though, I think there's a point on the emotional abusive aspect that can't really be denied. I don't think he INTENDS to cause emotional bruising, but obviously he is by the level of emotion that pours out of this entry.

I think that's what she was trying to say. I know on the thread we've started amongst ourselves, this was the recurring issue many of the women had. That you were staying in a relationship that was causing you so much heart ache.

I, for one, understand your decision. I respect it and understand why you don't see it as emotionally abusive. I'm just trying to play devils' advocate for Jean as I think her point got a bit confused as an attack on your husband.

But thank you anyway for this post. It's beautiful and I wish you and your family all the best. I'll be thinking of you often, I"m sure.

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Kelli
7/19/2012 03:31:44 am

Different Kelli, same thread!

Also know Jeannie, and I wanted to toss in my two cents regarding this (we've been talking about it for a couple days now).

As a divorced woman who struggled with the emotional abuse of an overbearing husband, I think she's just prone to bristle at the thought of another woman enduring what she did. As you mentioned, I think she was trying to be charitable in her comments (even though I agree they came off too harshly in judgement of you and your husband).

I happened to really like this entry, too, and was wondering if you ever did a follow-up of your hsuband's reasons like you mentioned you might. I saw your follow up entries, but I couldn't see that one. Wasn't sure if you did it or not.

K - won't take up more time, but wanted to thank you for this, too, and explain a little why Jeannie said what she said. I'm not condoning it, but it helps to have perspective.

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Gina
7/19/2012 03:51:18 am

You're not taking up time! :) I appreciate your comments.

Didn't write one on John yet. I honestly don't know if he'd be 100% with that. Suffice to say that his reasons revolve around mostly:

Can we afford another child?
Will I have enough time to split between Vince and a new baby?
Do I have enough love to give another child?
Will Vincent be neglected because of the other child?
Will Gina be able to handle another pregnancy / child (due to issues revolving around my herniated disc)?

So basic, run of the mill stuff most guys worry about when it comes to a 2nd child.

Gina
7/19/2012 03:48:35 am

Hi ladies,

Thanks for stopping by. I actually smiled at the fact that you came to defend your friend against my angry outburst yesterday. That's very sweet of you. She's lucky to have such good friends. :)

I do apologize that I, too, bristled. I'm sure I could've found a way to be more charitable. I had gathered she'd divorced from the blunt stance she took, but let me reiterate that John is really not abusive towards me - emotionally or otherwise.

He cannot help his feelings on this matter. If he could, I truly believe he'd do everything he could to meet in the middle. However, you can't compromise on a child. You just can't.

So I promise, promise, promise he's not emotionally abusive. Though I do commend you folks for being so dedicated to ensuring that. It's good to want to protect folks who might be in a detrimental relationship. Even strangers. So bless you for it.

However, he's not, and I'm safe, well and wonderful. He's a good man and I'm lucky to have him. :)

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Stacey R.
7/19/2012 03:54:36 am

Also from KA's thread!

Loved this entry and am pretty interested in your other ones, too. I'm not catholic, but I dabble in the various christian theologies because I believe them to at least be working towards the truth, ya know?

Just wanted to add that I enjoyed this and was deepely moved by it. Glad he's not an emotionally abusive a-hole. That's the important thing!

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Lorenzo
7/31/2012 12:46:00 am

Great witness,


I am in the same position except my wife takes birth control. She knows how it make me furious, but doens't want any more children. I have tried to explain catholic doctrine, and Humanae Vitae, but she refuses to acknowledge. She was born into a catholic family and recieved her sacraments(baptism +confirmation, overseas diocese) but her family pursued Jehovah Witness as she grew older. She believes that God has abandoned her. So she doesn't come to church with me, and our children.

Yet I still pray a rosary for her everyday, that God will touch her heart and come back. I do wish her and I could have more children. We have two girls. Keep your head up, Saint Monica prayed for years for her son, we must do the same for our loved ones.

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Susan
7/31/2012 01:33:17 am

Lorenzo,
A great place for prayer support is www.aidtothechurchinneed. I'm off to light a candle for you and your family there, and they will be sending a prayer request to the nuns in Sarajevo that will be praying for you and your family through this blessed ministry we have available to us as Roman Catholics. God Bless You, Susan

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Gina
7/31/2012 02:07:26 am

Lorenzo - you have my prayers as well. Susan, what a organization!!! Thanks for posting it out there not just for Lorenzo, but for all of us who struggle and need the prayers.

May you both feel the smile of Our Lady in your lives. <3

Deb
7/31/2012 01:50:09 am

I'd love to reassure you that you are not the only one. Your honesty is amazing. This is not something that is easy to talk about among Catholics! God bless you both with freedom from fear and healing.

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Gina
7/31/2012 02:20:01 am

{Hugs}

I'm honestly learning that through the spread of this entry. It is truly my hope that this now reaches out to those who struggle with a similar issue. There is hope and love and healing available to couples who struggle with this. There really is.

Blessings and prayers to you for your sweet response. Thank you. <3

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Joe
7/31/2012 02:20:50 am

Hello Gina,
I was introduced to your blog from spiritdaily.org. I admire you so very much for sharing how you feel. As a 36 y/o, single male Catholic, it is wonderful to hear that there are still devout Catholic women in the world, now I just need to find one that is single, lol !(the ones I have dated especially recently, though Catholic, are completely secular).
I have always wanted children....when I hear of a married father not wanting more it makes me wonder....am I out of my mind? When I was in Seminary, I thought could devout my life to the Church as a priest.....but the desire for a loving wife and children changed my mind. As I eluded to above the challenge of meeting someone is much tougher than I anticipated....regardless, (im getting a bit off topic, sorry) Pls allow me to recommend a series of books to you. "fatherless", "motherless", and "childless" written by Brian J. Gail. A priest friend of mine recommend the books. I just finished "fatherless"....its a pretty good and a worthwhile read and touches on the broader issue of artificial contraception.
I will pray for you, your husband and all Catholic couples. I am sure you are not alone....

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marianna link
7/31/2012 02:28:14 am

I already sent my comments, but have few question for you?

Do really obey God? Do you conform to God Will? Do you put your husband "wishes" befor God's Will. By using contraceptive you totally put back to God? God loves you but not sin. Loving someone doesn't mean that you have to conform to his egoistic wishes. I think you should pray for your soul. You won't bring your husband closer to God by living in mortal sin(using contraception). We have to stand in Truth, it hurts. You as well make choice regarding your eternal salvation. If someone dies in mortal sin goes to Hell. We never know how much time we still have on earth. I was in the same situation like you but I said no to sin. I could'nt love God and disobey Him. Now I have six children and I am happy mother and I wish the same to you. Be strong.

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Gina
7/31/2012 02:34:27 am

*Sigh*

Marianna, please actually read my commentary before making sweeping allegations about the sinfulness of my soul, okay?

Last time I checked, your name was Marianna, not Jesus Christ. You cannot say that I'm living in mortal sin, and you certainly cannot tell me that I'm standing between God and husband through following the blessing of two separate priests.

Methinks they'd have a stronger handle on the theological ramifications than you.

So bless you and bless your children. However, I suggest withholding judgement over another person's soul, especially when you haven't a full grasp of the situation.

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prisca
7/31/2012 02:38:21 am

I feel for you as you are suffering the lack of fulfilling your natural desires to mother children. Not knowing the details of your situation it is hard to comment as I am not sure if you are using NFP which is legitimate or if you are using illigitimate birth control methods. If they are illigitimate, perhaps you should stop and demand to use NFP since otherwise you may be sinning by participating in the sin of spilling the seed or the blocking of the gift of life inherent in the sexual act. Assuming that you are using legitimate means, I feel for you and pray that in time, your husbands heart may be softened to using his life on earth giving of himself more completely. By posting this publicly you are going to receive a multitude of prayers on your behalf.

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Gina
7/31/2012 03:11:51 am

Amen - prisca. Thanks for the reminder regarding prayers. Considering some of the commentary this has garnered, it's good to keep in mind that for every condemnation there are countless blessings and prayers.

I would hope that these prayers are offered on behalf of all parents struggling with this issue. This entry is no longer about my struggles with my husband.

It has struck a chord with others... it is a testament to our struggle, as a people, with the contraceptive culture.

Prayers, indeed, are needed. They are the necessary armor and the necessary sustenance that mobilizes us forward. And forward we must march. We are guaranteed victory because we follow the King of Victory.

Bless you all who stumble this way and offer prayers. May you be blessed a thousand fold for your spiritual generosity.

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Gerry Zipf
7/31/2012 02:58:36 am

Oh Gina...you are a beautiful soul and truly, God has placed John in your life to bring you both closer to Him! Do not be afraid to regard John's lack of trust in God's will to bless as sin...(we are all sinners) and to pray fervently and constantly for his conversion...then, trust in God's perfect (and permissive) will for you both! Meanwhile, do not worry about Vincent being an only child...Our Lord Jesus was an only child!
Just an aside...my mother was an only child...she is completely unspoiled and the most wonderful of mothers...I am one of ten children!!! Her mother may have been a bit like John...but God is the creator...and we are here because of Him!!!
Trust, pray and enjoy your love filled life!

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Gina
7/31/2012 03:13:06 am

Bless you, Gerry. I honestly needed to read your comment right then and there. God was gracious to send you over. His timing is perfect.

<3

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Robert
7/31/2012 03:09:07 am

Gina,
I saw a link on Spiritdaily.com and thought I would check your site out. The situation you are in is a tough and delicate one. I commend you for sticking by your husband's side in this matter and not running for someone that will "fulfill" your needs. Too many people in today's world run at the first sign of trouble and if they are asked to sacrifice for one another.
I cannot sit here and judge your husband's motives for not having any more kids. I have never walked in his shoes and do not know his mind. While his using contraception is not right, I can only judge the action and not the person.
I pray that the Holy Spirit continues to strengthen the bond you two have as husband and wife. I pray that God's will be done and that both of you are open to the answers that he gives to your prayers. It's hard when God says "no" to our prayers but he says "no" because what we want might hurt us or he has decided that he has something so much better in store for us, if we would only wait -- and waiting/patience is not a strong suit for many of us.
May God bless you, your husband, your son and all your family and friends that support you. May he even bless those that are mean to you (and I've read some of their posts) and I pray that he turns their hearts from stone to compassion and help them understand it is never ok to hate the sinner (as we all are) - Christ commanded that we love everyone if their ways of doing things are different than ours. God Bless

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Gina
7/31/2012 03:15:20 am

Robert, your comment is full of wisdom and compassion. I bless you for it.

Thank you for your prayers in return. You are right to remind us that God's "No" isn't always a bad thing. His Divine Will wants only the best for us, and who am I to argue with God? :)

Blessings!

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Mary
7/31/2012 05:04:04 am

Robert....perfectly said.

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shalimamma link
7/31/2012 03:21:19 am

*sigh with restrained eye-rolling at some of the comments*

I know I responded a long loooooong time ago ;) but thought I would weigh in again, as girlfriend, you are causing a wonderful stir in the Catholic community!

I knew the other day when I was 'opening a can of worms' in a posting, and I cannot commend you enough for being courageous and opening a very unique and intricate one yourself... an elephant that many MANY couples would rather leave under the carpet. I know this because I come from a devout Catholic family who 'used NFP' (no artificial birth control) to 'prevent children' because they 'weren't open to more life.' Of course, that's between them and God and far be it from ME to judge my most wonderful family whom I love with all my heart. However, while people can have the appearance of 'following all the rules perfectly', there is never a guarantee that their hearts are in line with God Himself. Take the Pharisees for example...

What I love about you, Gina, is that you are bearing a cross that is not so easily stuffed in a box like "I have cancer" or "I am poor financially" or "I see dead people." ;) The reason I love this about you is because at least I know there is at least one person in the world like me. My cross(es) (is more than one cross fair? :) are not easily fit into any box... they never have been. Sometimes, I have felt like a freak in my own community because of that. Well, I guess Jesus was kicked out His own community, too.

You give me comfort...

And I'll add a couple "Ha's" to that, too.

Love,
shalimamma

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Laurie
7/31/2012 03:56:34 am

I would suggest that both you and your husband find as much information about Pope John Paul IIs Theology of the Body as you can. Find some seminars you could attend as well. This teaching explains the spousal meaning of the body from the word of God....It makes clear what marriage is all about. We have lost that meaning in our anti-procreative culture.

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Mike
7/31/2012 04:24:54 am

Gina,
As I read your "Darkest Secret" my heart goes out to you - and I am a man. I would like to share some words of wisdom in this matter that I personally found very helpful. Please ponder this passage carefully. The following quote is taken from Fr. Gordon Knight (a very holy priest) and found in his book "Rational Theology: Marriage" (written in the '50's);

"One of the worst features about the use of contraceptive means of birth is that the one who is willing to use such means may be requiring his partner to cooperate in an act which is wrong. He may be leaving his partner only a choice between offending God or offending him. He may be leaving his partner no possibility of a happy marriage, for no one can be happily married who lives in fear of what he deserves from God or who lives in fear of estranging her partner by refusing to do as he requests. Marriage dose not make improper intercourse permissible, for nothing can make what is improper, proper. And improper intercourse is fatal to a happy marriage."

In the heart of Jesus and Mary,
Mike

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Mary
7/31/2012 05:34:20 am

I wholeheartly agree with Mike. I have suffered through this my whole marriage. When I married I was not a practicing Catholic. I had a conversion two years later after my first born. My husband was really no religion. We had our second child six years later, we almost divorce during that time. I was too religious for him. I can't tell you how many prayers, tears, holy hours, and fasting that I have done over the years over this issue. My question for many of priests was this, is it ok to cooperate in the act of sex with me being open to life and him not being open to llife. I have to tell you I got alot of different answers from many different priests. So I called EWTN and a Catholic Family Land priests, Because I knew they followed the Church's teachings. They told me that my husband broke the bond of the marriage and it was not against church teaching to withold sex in that case in the marriage. I told him I would not cooperate, for I must be true to God first! I can not tell you how difficult that choice was for me. It was a risk, But I let go and let God. My husband relented, not happy about it at all! God blessed me with three more children. He came to love them all very much. Trusting God is very hard, sometimes it puts you into situations that seem very threating to one's way of life. It helped that I ran the Divine Mercy pray group at my church for a while, because He use this as my source of strength. My husband did later on get fixed behind my back. It was another crisies in our marriage, for I bellieve God wanted me to have a six child. It still pains me today. The marraige has not been easy, but we are still going. I know you are saying this is a cross for you, it was for me too. But in no way can you cooperate in that sin. It makes it almost impossible for God to work through Mortal sin. You have tied his hands, so to speak. You need to speak to some different priests, you can not rob from God which is rightfully his, YOUR future children. I know you think God has called you to this cross, but he did not call you to cooperate in in mortal sin, no matter what you tell yourself. It is a trick of the devil, we can NEVER cooperate in evil. I am sorry to say that. My husband is a good man, a good father but he never would of been if I had gone along with him. That is the truth. This thing about all children should be brought to life in love, As far as I am concern, they are. God loves each one of them! But they have to be born to Love him back. All of us are called to Love God first, that is why it is the first commandment. In the heart of Jesus's most merciful Heart, Mary

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Mary link
7/31/2012 05:00:58 am

Gina,
Thank you for sharing and venting. I am in a somewhat similar situation, somwhat different. We have been married for 16 years and we have 4 children. Well, 7 children, but only 4 living. I recognize more children would be a gift from God, even if a burden to my present way of life. My husband has had enough children, but I long to build our family and please God.
Your thoughts and reconciliation with your situation are the same ones I have, and ponder on, and return to so very often. I think you are beautiful in God's eyes. He is loving you for your willingness to continue in spite of pain and conflict. I see you following his loving example of faithfulness, sacrifice, and love.
I learned a very long time ago that God's plan when two people join in marriage, is that each brings the other to salvation. I could not reach heaven without my husband, he will not reach it without me....we were created for eachother. Continue on your path, staying close to Jesus and Mary, and know that you are not the only one. Others suffer with you. The bigger picture is that we are working towards Heaven, and God's plan for us, individually, is unknown to anyone but Him. Continue to love Him, and John, and your present son, and all the children you find in your heart. Perhaps turn the love for children you never have, into prayer towards children that don't have parents to love them, or parents that find themselves with children they never wanted. God loves you and you are a beautiful example to all of us....whether we identify with you or not.

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Ri Fox
7/31/2012 05:55:05 am

I applaud you for your deep love for your husband and son. May God bless you and may you have peace in this situation.

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Question
7/31/2012 05:56:50 am

So is it birth control they are using? Or natural method? If birth control, how are you reconciling this with your Catholic faith. No judgement just wondering. I haven't been able to read everything.

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Laurie
7/31/2012 06:29:13 am

According to JP II, there is no difference between artificial and natural method if it is still being used as a form of contraception. He said that when one separates the "natural method' from the ethical dimension one no longer sees the difference between it and other methods(artificial means) (General Audience of Sept 5, 1984)

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Catherine
7/31/2012 07:51:27 am

Whoa there, Laurie~ I appreciate your intent to help, but your wording needs a bit of clarification. Natural Family Planning (which has been loudly lauded and touted by the Church) is emphatically NOT 'contraception'. "Contra" (meaning 'against') conception is the placing of barriers or engaging in acts (such as withdrawal, etc.) that impede conception. I'm not certain what you are calling the 'natual method' that you are equating with artificial contraception, but NFP is not at all contrary to the teachings of the Catholic faith.
There is an essential differance between engaging in the marital act during what is slated by science to be a woman's infertile time, and engaging in the use of artifical contraception. With NFP, the couple is still giving their total gift of self to each other, placing no barriers, and completing their act of love completely in accordance with natural and moral law. When a couple engages in the marital act during an infertile period, the man and woman are just as open to life through that act as if they were to engage in the act during a more fertile time. There is no barrier being raised to thwart conception; and God has blessed couples with the gift of children in times they have determined to be infertile. Spacing children through this method is a choice that requires a monthly reevaluation of a couple's belief in God's will for their particular family's life. It it between them, (the couple), the teachings of Holy Mother Church, and God.

Betty
7/31/2012 06:17:38 am

Gina,

I have read your post and the many replies you received. Your story is so deeply sad on so many different levels.

One thing you mentioned was that the marital act is a sacrament, and every time you unite with your husband you are renewing that sacrament. This would be true if there were no mortal sin involved. It is akin to one receiving the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin. While outwardly it *looks* like one is receiving a sacrament, those graces are blocked by the state of mortal sin one is in.

You are making great sacrifices for your marriage. Have you ever considered asking your husband to make similar sacrifices on your behalf, and on behalf of your marriage? If you were to use NFP, you would be open to life during each and every marital act and would not need to participate in the sin of contraception.

I would strongly suggest you find a good priest to guide you in this trial. It is all too easy for us to *priest-shop* until we find one who will tell us what we want to hear (as Mary attested to above), so we must seek out those who are willing to explain the objective truth to us.

As one who has gone through many years praying for my heart to be joined with my husband's in our desire for more children, I hurt for you.

St. Monica, pray for us!

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Laurie
7/31/2012 06:22:01 am

Our late Holy Father JP II made a profound statement in his catechesis of Theology of the Body...that "the conjugal act means not only love, but also potential fruitfulness, and thus it cannot be deprived of its full and adequate meaning by means of artificial interventions. In the conjugal act, it is not licit to separate artificially the unitiive meaning from the procreative meaning, because the one as well as the other belong to the innermost truth of the conjugal act...When the conjugal act is deprived of its inner truth because it is deprived artificially of its procreative capacity, it also ceases to be an act of love." (from his Wednesday audience on Theology of the body August 22, 1984.) Now there is a rich teaching behind that statement. Theology of the Body was intended to be a full and complete foundation for the encyclical Humanae Vitae. It is the answer to cultural confusion about sexuality. It needs to widely spread about to all Catholics through the church but also to non-Catholic Christians who should not have any problem with it being it is wholly based on Scripture.

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Joe Rutkowski
7/31/2012 06:52:27 am

All I can say is I am a man who regrets contraception and sterilization! It sucked the intimacy out of our marriage. Love is a total gift of self and a big part of "self" is fertility. Without the total gift it becomes lust instead of love. I had all the reasons too. You sound young. I am 54 and have been through it.
I grieve not having more children. I have two and they are the best. I will pray for you both. Children are Gods blessing to married couples. Don't turn down a gift from God. You brother in Christ. Joe

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Dionna
7/31/2012 06:59:17 am

Hi Gina,

I also found you on Spirit Daily and rarely do I ever engage. . But I was compelled (I am sure the Holy Spirit had something to do with it) to share my thoughts.. First, I wholeheartely applaud you for living your faith through your marriage with authentic unconditional love. It is not the easy path-but the true and most rewarding. It is the Catholic view - and therefore the way of Christ in marriage-to ultimately put the final decision on all family matters in the hands of the husband who is head of his family. That does not mean a wife should not speak her mind from her heart and cannot disagree, nor accept any form of abuse. You said many times that you both communicate everything openly and so he fully knows how you feel. He bears the responsibility and also the burden of what comes from whatever decision he makes. If it were simply an act of selfishness, you would know. Since your husband is athiest-he cannot fully form his choices based on Christ teaching-so he forms it based on whatever he has learned and on the gifts he has received from God(even if he is unaware of it). He also has not the grace to fight his fears-and fear comes from the evil one-who is the father of lies and undoubtedly wants not to see your desire for bringing new life fullfilled. The battle is a spiritual one afterall. This is where unfortunately he can fail-or make the wrong choice-to the pain of the whole family-but obviously-is not his intent. To be honest, from what I have read in your dialogue, I have a hard time believing your husband is a true athiest-because the way he lives and loves shows Christs light in him more than one usually sees in someone who does not believe. He is maybe on his way-just doesn't know it yet;) Without that-knowing and trusting in the God who made him, he is unable perhaps to trust and wholeheartely accept whatever comes with the gift of another child-should God will it. I get the impression - based on his fears-your husband believes he is being protective as a father & husband and will stand by that-even if it separates you. What I see in your response is a witness to the trust you have in Gods ability to work through your love and patience in converting your husband. It is indeed the primary calling of every spouse to bring the other to Heaven. You seem to have found this to be more important than your deep wish for more children-and therefore a cross you are willing to bear. (willing to bear does not mean easy to bear-and letting it out this way may not only be good therapy for you-but for those who happen to read it.) God wants all of us to be open to life-this is what marriage was created for-.but as you said-you cannot force that acceptance of Gods Will-on someone else. It comes from God and your husband has to convert first. No doubt He put you together foremost for that purpose. God will never be outdone in generosity-so I also have no doubt what He has in mind for you and your family - be it more little ones or not-will be beyond your hopes and dreams. Marriage is a lifeling committment of authentic-sacrificail love that can only be fully realized with Christ as the foundation-for both. As they say "it takes three". Sacrificail love may be the way of the Cross, but the fruit is pure joy.
That is my prayer for you. That your husband has a deep conversion-very soon and this experience will not only bring you closer to each other but truly make you "one" in Christ.

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Sarah
7/31/2012 07:17:59 am

My dear,
I feel your pain-acutely, but there's more to the story. I have 4 kids. I am blessed. My husband wanted 2-at most. At four he quit. I complied & cried & cried & cried. We went camping the weekend after his announcement that there would be no more. It was there that I had a revelation. A simple thing really. Through my broken heart, through my despair over the babies I'd never have, that I wanted so desperately, I began to cook dinner over the camp fire. Two little boys showed up--they'd been around most of the day playing with my crew-they ate with us that night, the next day & throughout the whole weekend. I began to realize they were with parents who were essentially homeless, poor, broke & without the means to feed these two darlings. I knew then that this was the way God was going to give me children. Since then, over the past 14 years, boys (and now girls) have been clothed, fed, housed, disciplined, loved on, mentored & sent out into the world with at least some idea of what 'family' is like. The pain of not having my 'own' babies hasn't gone away...but, there's the love I have for my 'boys' that are now out there, married, in the military, in school, working or whatever.

Keep your chin up. God has a work for you too.I'll be praying for you.

Sarah

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M
7/31/2012 01:45:06 pm

Sarah - I have felt so often that maybe the way that God wants more children in my life is the way that you describe above. We have three boys and I wanted another for so long when my husband really didn't. Nevertheless, we were open and ended up miscarrying a little over two years ago. The pain is as real today as it was back then (tears flowing right now). I have had so much anxiety and guilt over my fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby that I have often wondered if God wants us to adopt or take in other children. Thank you for your testimony - perhaps it was meant for me to read.

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Sarah
8/1/2012 03:34:32 am

Keep your eyes open, M. There are children out there that need you. Probably never in a 'legal' way like foster care, but they need mentors, advocates, a hug, dinner...a new pair of jeans or a t-shirt. I'd suggest honing your 'crock pot' skills :-)
S.

Gina
8/1/2012 03:27:06 pm

<3 this! Bless both of you. You'll be in my prayers. :)

M
7/31/2012 02:03:23 pm

Sarah - I have felt so often that maybe the way that God wants more children in my life is the way that you describe above. We have three boys and I wanted another for so long when my husband really didn't. Nevertheless, we were open and ended up miscarrying a little over two years ago. The pain is as real today as it was back then (tears flowing right now). I have had so much anxiety and guilt over my fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby that I have often wondered if God wants us to adopt or take in other children. My fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby again is keeping me from truly being open to life (I think- I am getting up there in age, too!) Thank you for your testimony - perhaps it was meant for me to read.

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Spiritual Friend
7/31/2012 07:48:37 am

I don't mean to judge, but only to point out some things to consider as you discern what to do in this situation. So bear with me.

Consider the following questions about your husband (and your own spirituality as well). Does your husband consider himself a faithful Catholic? Is he truly knowledgeable about what the church teaches - the Catechsim? Does your husband attend Mass every Sunday and confession regularly? Is he prayerful? Is he modeling, teaching, and sharing the faith with your son? Most important is this daily practice in your home as a couple, and as a family? If you answered "no" to any of these questions, your issue at hand is a spiritual one and I strongly urge you to seek out a priest, books, or a parish or diocesan program that focuses on Church teaching on Theology of the Body which encompasses the role of persons within a marriage, fidelity, our calling to children and contraception. Pope John Paul II wrote extensively on Theology of the Body. There are many good books out there on the subject (which expounds on the catechism regarding marriage) you can have him read. Simply googling the topic or even going to the EWTN website www.ewtn.com and clicking on the Q&A section with esteemed apologists, priests, and theologians who can help point you in the right direction and answer questions will help much.

I find that most people who truly know and understand their faith, would never choose to live in marriage with you. If he were a truly knowledgeable about the faith and if he is one considers himself to be seriously practicing his faith, he'd never put you in this position to begin with. I suspect in your case, with serious prayer, the assistance of a good spiritual director (preferrably a devout priest) and patience, your husband's hardened heart will be converted. If not, do not be afraid to leave this situation. In the end, the spiritual well-being of your souls is far more important than what a spouse can provide materially, financially or socially to you and your son. I'm not advocating divorce, but I am advocating choosing God and His will over our own. His will will always be for us to draw closer to Him than fearfully clinging to things familiar that in the end may harm us spiritually. Sometimes people don't convert until the things that matter to them most are almost lost forever. Just remember, your situation is a spiritual battle...not a battle of wills. Pray unceasingly for guidance and the soul and conversion of your husband, and most important, always put God and His will first.

Now back to my questions to consider. If your husband considers himself knowledgeable about the faith, does he truly realise that he is committing a grave mortal sin that must be confessed and that if he continues to live in this way, he could lose his eternal life. He is actively thwarting God's plan for your marriage by denying "God" (not your or your husband) the ability to choose whether you both will or will not have children? This is no less serious or different than the sins associated with homosexuality, mastrabation (selfish act of using non-life producing sex for self pleasure) using birth control or abortion (acts that prevent life) in the eyes of the Church. Because of this, the Church would deem this marriage invalid. For more on this get a copy of the Catechism of Catholic church or refer to Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II as mentioned earlier.

It seems when people don't have full understanding of the gravity and implication of choices such as these they cling to these ideas. Not many people have a Church marriage knowingly wanting to defy church teaching, or knowingly wanting to hurt anyone. Sometimes when they read and better understand why these things are bad for us spiritually, we rethink our selfish ways and convert. I do believe this is really all you can do for your husband at this point....educate him, get him to someone who can educate him, and pray for his conversion. The ultimate choice to make this marriage to you a real marriage in the eyes of the church, to raise his son properly in the faith as God has intended, to know and live his faith, and ultimately have a true conversion, is all up to him.

The Church teaches that avoiding pregnancy without a valid reason (such as grave illness for instance) is a mortal sin (sins worthy of damnation) no different than choosing to use contraception or abortion. It also makes a marriage invalid in the eyes of the Church because he is not fulfilling the conditions the Church deems makes a valid marriage. If he takes his Catholic faith seriously, this should be downright sobering to him. And to add to that the thought that his actions could influence his son's view of marriage, fidelity, sex, and respect of church teaching in negative ways, thus setting the stage for him to live a less than desireable spiritual life should be all the more horrifying as he is called to raise his son "properly

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Gina
7/31/2012 07:53:47 am

You haven't read this article in full at all, have you?

My husband is not Catholic. He is an atheist. Thus, almost every single question you asked "as a friend" makes no sense considering John doesn't believe in God.

I realize you think you're attempting to help me discern God's Will, but how exactly can you do that when you didn't even take the time to understand the situation?

As for leaving my marriage to follow God's Will, that seems just a shade oxymoronic, don't you think?

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C.B.
7/31/2012 08:31:39 am

I agree with what your saying in general, but if John was open to life in the beginning wouldn't their marriage already have been valid? I would like to see where the Church teaches this.Let me use an analogy. Marrying a person who is an alcoholic is one thing but if your husband/wife falls into alcoholism thats different. You then have the responsibility of helping that person get up right?

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Charlene
7/31/2012 08:01:14 am

I seen this on SpiritDaily.com

My husband felt the same after we had 2 kids. We have a total of 5 now-boy has it been a journey...

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Gina
7/31/2012 08:12:52 am

I'm posting this as a comment so all who have been following this thread are able to read it.

1 - I've swapped comments to Approve First. Courtesy of all the folks who have declared themselves Christ by judging my husband or I guilty of mortal sin, I feel compelled to remind people not to overstep their bounds. I am friendly with the delete button. You are not Christ, and you certainly cannot judge my soul (or that of my husband's). Even with the best of intentions.


2 - I must've gotten this phrase at least 20 times: "You might've answered this already, but I didn't read everything, so can you answer these questions again?"

I'm going to delete comments like this as well, because I'm not a broken record. If you're too lazy to read the responses I've already written 100 times, that's on you. I'm done reiterating myself.


3 - To those of you who have offered insightful differences of opinion, gentle words of compassion, prayers and well-wishes, I offer you my thanks. YOU are the type of people that make this conversation a worthwhile one. Bless you a thousand-fold for your spiritual generosity. I hope you continue to engage in this dialogue as I've learned much from you. Even if you have a different take on my approach, I appreciate you respectfully offering that difference without resorting to mortal sin accusations. Again - bless you.

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Charles B.
7/31/2012 08:16:17 am

spiritdaily.com is directing viewers your way. I myself am one.
God bless you. I hope your husband has a change of heart.

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M
7/31/2012 09:27:11 am

Gina - you are a brave woman and I will add you to my prayer list. I cried at how faithful you have been and feel that the Lord will greatly reward you for that alone.

I find myself in a somewhat similar situation, though I am not up to writing all about it right now. Needless to say, I struggle with a big difference between me and my husband and pray for something to change in his heart. I also went years wanting another baby when my husband didn't feel we could handle it (even though he really wanted one). We were open to life and I got pregnant at 42 and miscarried. It devastated both of us, and now, I have had nothing but fear, anxiety and guilt about the situation every since.

I feel your sadness and am amazed at your strength and faithfulness. Perhaps, the Lord is using you as the means to your husband's eventual conversion to the faith. Without your example, he may never have been exposed to faithfulness like yours.

God bless you -

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Laura
7/31/2012 09:46:42 am

Hi - I just read your witness. It encourages me to accept my cross with the love Jesus has for me. I will pray for you and your family - please pray for mine.

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Tom in Wisconsin
7/31/2012 12:58:05 pm

Very well written and from the heart. You know that Job too was mysteriously tested. He didn't understand why, but remained faithful and saw an increase in his family in the end. It's clear you are filled with a lot of love and you are greatly loved by Our Lord. Peace and God be with you and your family.

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Marie link
7/31/2012 01:05:27 pm

I think your are an amazing woman with great faith. Your insight and knowledge are based on prays and personal relationship with the holy spirit. Your husband is a very blessed person. I was once told by a priest the role of a wife and husband is to get each other to heaven.
I was in a similar situation, after three children my husband decided this was enough. He used contraception. During my confession I asked the priest what I should do, he suggested praying to St. Joseph whick I did. Not long after my husband had a change of heart.I never fell pregnant again so I took this as not in Gods plan. I did however have peace of mind knowing my husband was released from this chain.
My prayers are with you, and will pray that St Joseph will obtain for you the same grace.
Your sister in Christ
Marie

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Monica (momof2)
7/31/2012 01:30:38 pm

I read the whole article and all the comments. But I have one question which has not be directly asked or answered. Why doesn't your husband want to use NFP? NFP today (especially using the Fertility Monitor device) is extremely accurate. So if your husband has good reasons to avoid pregnancy you just have relations during infertile times. True, you still won't get anymore kids but at least you can fully unite as husband and wife with the sex act itself still being open to life as you both promised to be at your marriage. no worrying about sin. Yes, your husband would have to make the very small sacrifice of abstaining some days every month (which is not anywhere equal to your sacrifice) but it seems if he truly loves you he could do that for you. Have you discussed NFP and if so what are his objections to it?

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Brian
8/1/2012 08:39:18 am

Gina - it was a pleasure to read your article, just to know that such a wonderful person as you exists. I suppose there are many like you, but the thoughts and feelings are not known. Your love for kids is great. I agree with Monica. Seems like using NFP is something to consider. It's not 100% affective, which your husband might worry about, but neither is any other form. I do think it would bring you closer to each other, as now your decision as a couple not to have children would be a shared sacrifice, instead of one only carried by you. That might be a way to sell it to him! Here, hon, is a way for you to fall more deeply in love with me. Ha ha!

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Dana
7/31/2012 02:53:06 pm

I have been where you are. My husband wasn't to thrilled having the first and clearly wanted to stop after the second. PRAY PRAY PRAY!! SACRIFICE SACRIFICE SACRIFICE!!! God hears and can to all things. I put my foot down on the NFP. If he wanted to be with me it was NFP or there was no business in the bedroom. I would continue to ask him each month if he wanted another child. If he said no then we skipped the time of fertility. Three years later he decided he wouldn't mind a third. Then the kids began to ask if we could have another. I don't lie not even for my husband. I told them and anyone else that asked to talk to my husband. I have always wanted more children. On one of our anniversaries he agreed that he would like to have a fourth child. That little girl passed away before she was born. I was deviated and asked once again if we could have another child. God gave us a son who also passed away. I could not even think of going through such pain and told God only he could convince us both to try again. In his wisdom God gave us another child and this little girl lived. What a miracle. God gave us six children and my husband was not sold on having any. God is good!!! Pray that your husband has an unquenchable desire for the Eucharist and an increase in faith. Stand on the truth. After all if you really love your husband you will want heaven for him. Love God above all things even your husband. God will take care of the rest.

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Bee Blockerson
7/31/2012 04:37:18 pm

As I read your post I was so heartbroken for you, and you expressed your pain so well that it is almost palpable. It seems you are trying to convey that even though you are often unintentionally confronted with the reminder of what you do not have and will probably never have but desire with all your heart, you must often suffer in silence out of charity for others, but that you understand your situation as a sacrifice of love. I do not know how old you are, but because of some of the ways you express yourself you sound relatively young, perhaps in your late 20’s or early 30’s. I am in my late 50’s and never married and have no children, though I desired both very much my whole life. I wanted to marry someone who wanted children, and I never met that man. So I did not marry. As I grew older and realized I was not going to have children, I often felt the pain you so aptly describe, in the same sorts of situations. I am now in menopause and I will never have what I wanted. So I can grasp what you are saying. I know this is not the same situation as yours, but I want to say something to you about your idea of sacrificing your desire for more children as an act of love for your husband. You mention that “Maybe this is the cross Christ is asking me to bear.” Maybe it is, for today or for a little while. But here’s my advice to you. Say “no” in your spirit. Say no, and mean no, that you will not accept only one child unless God wants that for you. Then you go to Our Lady and you beg her, you plead, you nag, you whine, you cry and you tell her you want ALL the kids God wants you to have, and you tell her to ask Jesus to soften your husband’s heart, that you respect him as your head, and you will obey him, but his desire for no more kids is not okay with you and you want God’s will to be done in your lives. Promise Our Lady you will dedicate your children to her, that you will name them after her (even the boys, somehow!). Pray to St. Elizabeth, who gave up on having a child, but didn't stop praying for one and was blessed with St. John the Baptist in her old age. Tell her to you need help, ask her to pray for you. Ask these two holy women to conspire to get you your kids. Do this as often as you think of this problem, every day, several times a day if you think of it, for years if you have to, until you get the peace you are seeking, and an answer from God. You don’t have to mention this to your husband or even try to change his mind, but here’s the thing. If God only wants little Vincent for you, you will come to understand this is okay and you will find peace. If God wants more kids for you , and you show Him how great is your desire, He will find a way where there seems to be no way. And what will happen is your own faith will increase, and you will find joy, not pain, in your situation. Don’t just sit there…PETITION! For goodness sake, GO TO GOD WITH YOUR PROBLEM! In my life, because of my prayers, I accept my childlessness, but I STILL HAVE HOPE. I know it is ridiculous, but I still hope in some crazy way God will give me what I desire. It’s impossible, but I don’t care. And if a miracle ever happens for me, I’ll let you know. 

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Gina
8/1/2012 03:29:54 pm

Bee, I think you somehow got into my mind and wrote out exactly how I pray... lol.

Bless you. You, my dear, will be wrapped in my prayers. I read your comment before adoration tonight, and I brought your miracle intention with me.

Thank you for the smile, prayers, and your own beautiful witness. God must have a special spot for you, my dear. A special spot, indeed.

:)

<3

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Someone
8/1/2012 02:52:13 am

Thank you for your post. I came across it today. It must've been incredibly hard for you to write that.

I have the same feelings and am in the same situation, however I'm on the other side of the boat. I am a husband and a father and for the last several years I've despaired of ever being able to convince my wife for more children. A big family is all I ever wanted, I just don't think it will happen.

Your post has given me a lot to think about.

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Lorraine
8/1/2012 04:15:32 am

All I read here was love...true love. The kind that we gaze upon on the Crucifix. And I KNOW that with God all things are possible. And It's preciesly because of your Christian love for your husband that his heart will be flooded with graces through your prayers. I feel so blessed to have read this post. Marriage is so multi-faceted...so many layers, so many unique and at times difficult peculiarities. I have been married for 32 years and have six children. Although it's a different story than yours in so many ways, my marriage is strong because of the very same love you describe in your post for perhaps opposite reasons. But the result is the same. Love wins. Love conquers. Sacrifice is the face of love. Love has a name: Jesus...and He showed us what love looks like. It's as near as the closest Tabernacle and Crucifix. God bless you. Continue to love. Love wins.

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Kim
8/1/2012 04:44:08 am

Thank you so much for sharing.

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Aunt Raven
8/1/2012 05:47:27 am

You clearly need a miracle, so here's how to get them: Read about the green scapular; get one blessed for your husband, stuff it under his side of the matress, and say the little inscription on it every day.

Next, make one or both these Novenas: "Our Lady Undoer of Knots" and / or the 54-day Rosary Novena. The latter is very hard to complete; because you will only be able to sustain this prayer campaign if it is truly God's will for you to have your request.

Lastly, fasting makes your prayer far more powerful. There are many prudent ways to fast (not diet) listed on Christian or Catholic webpages.

Google all these topics to educate yourself, then plan a resolute prayer campaign. I guarantee that when you complete the novenas you will have a successful pregnancy; perhaps God will even give you twins to make up for lost time !

Oh, and I cannot recommend too highly persuading your husband next vacation to take you both to Mejugorie. Trust Our Lady to deal with him there without need for you to say anything to him at all-- even if he doesn't want to walk with you anywhere there -- she'll find him in whatever hotel or guest house he's relaxing in . . . ;-)

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Gina
8/1/2012 03:32:36 pm

Hello 'Aunt Raven'

:)

You and I think alike. John doesn't know it, but he's got a medal that's been touched to over 160 1st class relics in his pillowcase (Treasures of the Church - check that one out!).

I'm familiar with the green scapular, but I never thought to utilize that, too. Good point!

Also familiar with OL Undoer of Knots. That's one of my favorite titles of Our Lady. She's certainly heard copious prayers from me regarding this and other issues. Ha ha.

Doubtful we'll have the money to go on a pilgrimage, but I've always wanted to go to Medjugorje. Maybe Garabandal. Fatima. Oh, Fatima... LoL.

Bless you for dropping in with prayers and advice. :)

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Amanda
8/1/2012 07:47:15 am

2 words for you... St. Gerard.

His intercession worked for me and maybe he'll do the same for you.

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Gina
8/1/2012 03:33:05 pm

Amen! :) He was wonderful to my son, Vince, while I was pregnant. I'm so happy you had a happy ending, yourself. Bless you.

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Laurie
8/1/2012 12:44:12 pm

You and your family will be in my prayers. I have learned to pray for God's will in all things. Not what I think should happen, nor what anyone else thinks should happen, but truly for the grace to accept all the good and bad in my life as God's will. I admire your sacrifice, and I pray that God's will is accomplished in your marriage. As I often tell my kids when they're going through a hard time, offer it up, God will do something great with your sacrifice. His ways are not our ways and He can bring good out of anything! May God give you his peace.

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Mfh
8/1/2012 01:33:26 pm

i believe there is power in prayer. Get an army of people to pray for this situation aka rosaries/masses and God will move mountains. :)

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Shelly
8/1/2012 02:32:50 pm

I haven't had time to read the overwhelming number of posts. However, I really sympathize with your grief, your intense desire to have more children that you've always dreamed of and your husband's conflicting desire to have no more. This is a STRUGGLE especially for you. You don't need therapy, for goodness' sake for obvious reasons you've stated. I find it actually amazing that you don't resent him. I wanted more children (we have 3) and finally I became pregnant and my husband was sooooo angry with me. We had a car accident and I lost the baby and to be honest, I resented him because he was driving too fast and I really think I miscarried because of the accident. He also doesn't agree with NFP but is going along with it somewhat resentfully. But, he's not as angry about it as he used to be. I have ached to hold more children or at least another child in my arms. And I never used to dream of having children as a child. Whatever, you have made yourself extremely vulnerable. I commend you for your openness. I couldn't quite tell but I'm guessing your husband is Catholic. I'm assuming here that you know all about the Theology of the Body. And being that you two are so open with your emotions and interests, thoughts, etc. have you ever thought of sharing parts of a CD with him that really speaks to you- if you own any TOB CD's or any passages of books about this topic with him-if you own any books. Or, is this whole situation too fragile to read him something like this? On the other hand, it sounds like he was previously open to having more children and things changed along the way. (Of course, a change of beliefs or opinions AFTER marriage is not grounds for an annulment, whatever people are saying). If I remember correctly from a post that you said his thoughts about not having more children involve some fear. Fear of not providing. Fear you may not have enough love to give around (does he know how much love you have in your heart waiting to give away? Painful). Have you talked with him about some of his fears? Maybe you can pray for his faith to increase. With an increase in faith and trust in Our Lord, perhaps his viewpoints about things may change. I don't know. My husband has actually brought up a vasectomy. That scared me and still does though he hasn't brought it up recently. I, however, am prone to resentment. It's not huge, but it's there. How do you NOT resent him for denying you more lives and souls to bring into this world? Let me know how you do not resent him. Right now, I have health issues that will not be resolved soon. So, having children wouldn't be wise right now.
I deeply feel for you and sympathize for your unfulfilled desire. To desire to bring forth life is to desire to share in God's creative power. This is one of the greatest if not the greatest power on earth. And your desire is so counter-cultural today. Have you prayed for your husband's conversion of heart? Maybe this is something to do and keep doing? Don't know....I will think of and pray for you.

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Gina
8/1/2012 03:43:26 pm

To Everyone:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. As one poster put it, it's sorta been like a full-time job trying to keep up with the comments, e-mails and messages that I've gotten as a result of this particular thread. I wish I could personally respond to every single one of you. Maybe in the coming weeks I'll be able to.

However, I'd like to address a couple common questions that keep cropping up.

1 - My husband is NOT Catholic. He was raised Catholic, but as an adult he's condemned all forms of religion - Catholicism especially. So trying to explain things to him from a theological perspective is not only pointless - it's damaging to our relationship.

He is content to allow me to explain my theological reasons for doing things, but to attempt to convince him through theology is almost like a slap in the face. Just as I wouldn't want him to try to convince me of something through the tenets of Scientology, I can't exactly attempt to use theological talking points to get my point across.


2 - We do not use NFP. Not for lack of trying, but from some of the commentary here, it might be worth another visit. Because John doesn't believe there is a point to NFP, he'd use condoms anyway. So I'd be practicing NFP properly, but he'd STILL be using condoms, so it sorta defeats the purpose. We've been around the bush on this one. My only recourse would be to say "No sex until you drop the condoms" but I feel as though that's using sex as a manipulation to get what I want. Manipulation should never be a means to an end. But again - some of you have given me pause, and I appreciate the different perspective.


3 - Many of the comments that I didn't publish deal a lot with warnings of "One day you're going to resent your husband" or "10 years from now he's going to leave you because of this" type warnings.

While I appreciate the concern, I assume if you actually had a crystal ball that foretold the future, you'd be spending your lotto money and ignoring little old blogs like mine.


4 - Finally, I've had several people complain about my style of writing or my particular outlooks on things. While I do apologize that I irritate some of you with my writing style, please keep in mind that I'm not a professional author. I began this blog as a personal diary. I never imagined it'd have this much of an audience.

In the future, I'll try to do better with foreshadowing, character development and plot twists. ;)


5 - Bless you all for taking the time to read this. Bless you all for your prayers and advice (regardless of which direction it went). All of you have my prayers tonight as I appreciate and love each one of you. Please keep my family in yours, and the families of all those who struggle with this contraceptive culture we find ourselves in.

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PPD Mom
8/1/2012 04:02:58 pm

Dear Gina
Thank you for writing this. I had not seen ONE posting on this subject before.
You are not alone. My case is a bit different. I had post-partum depression when I had my baby.
Dark times; times which my husband does not wish to see again.
So he has decided we are not having any more children.
I am heart broken, but I understand him.
May God help us through this, Gina... there are nights when I wake up and I panic - I am almost 40 and it may just be too late for a second child, or third.
It helps me know that I am not alone in this.
So thank you again. May the Lord bless you.

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CEM
8/1/2012 04:28:09 pm

Just a few thoughts......it is quite sad to read how many people want you to quickly divorce..........I actually admire your faithfulness to your husband........and just to think how a divorce would hurt your son..........What made me think was the idea that you separate the contraception issue and say that you are not contracepting even though your husband is. I always thought that there is either contraception used, or not, but I do understand where you are coming from.....Then I thought that maybe it would be better to use NFP anyway and avoid the fertile days. Even if he still uses the condoms on the non-fertile days, well, at least no actual contraception is taking place, since no conception could happen........that might also benefit your relationshipthrough the temporary times of abstinence and might plant a seed in his heart, a growing awareness of your gift of fertility which could otherwise be more easily ignored. Again, I admire your faithfulness and love for your husband just hope that God will open his heart for the gift of life. I know of husbands who dearly regretted their contraceptive surgery after some years......they were overwhelmed at that point but wanted more children later. I agree with one of the comments, it is a good sign that your husband did not choose surgery................there is still lots of hope.
I will be praying for both of you.
CEM

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prayerwarrior4Jesus
8/1/2012 05:41:29 pm

Yes, you're right, Gina. Your emotions and suffering are a lot like those of us who are physically infertile. The sorrow and pain comes back to me readily, even bringing tears to my eyes as I empathize with you completely, but 32 years ago the Lord blessed us with an adopted child--it took just 6 months from application to him being in our home, less than a pregnancy. They told it it would take at least three years for us to be able to adopt. God's perfect miracle and perfect timing. I wanted more children, my husband did not. God took care of that. No, we did not adopt any more children, but God gave me such a peace about it, that I knew He knew me and our family's needs better than we did ourselves. My prayer in all circumstances is, "Lord, if you do not want this for me, please take the desire away." He has been faithful in this prayer in huge and small ways. I know our son was supposed to be in our family, and I also know that he needed to be an only child. God does not make mistakes, and He is in total control. The desires of your heart will be met by God in His Way, His time. I don't know if that involves more children for you or not, but I do know that the suffering and pain you offer up to God are more powerful than the greatest need to bear children. I am fiercely pro-life and I am asking that you offer it up for an end to the slaughter of babies in their mothers' wombs. And I ask St. Joseph to intercede powerfully 24/7 before the Throne of Jesus for you and you husband and your child. He is the perfect go-to Saint for all things, especially husbands, marriages, and families. God is doing what needs to be done. I feel a great peace for you and your husband. We thank God for what He has already done, what He is doing now, and for He is yet to do in your family. God bless you!

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magdalene
8/1/2012 06:44:49 pm

I commend you and your husband and son to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to help you in this situation and for the miracle of another child or of a peace that surpasses all understanding. Stay close to Mary. Thank you for your courage.

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Maria-Camilla
8/5/2012 01:59:24 pm

To Gina:
I am sending this as a blog comment, but it's really a letter for you. If you find anything interesting, of course feel free to publish it on your blog. Just, know I don't expect it. I am not a native speaker of English. Although my academic English is excellent, sometimes I have trouble with tone. I try so hard to be exact when conveying meaning that I end up sounding dry, self-absorbed or harsh. I really hope it's not what comes across -- I worked really hard on this letter! Still, if there is any such problem, please read with an understanding ear.


Peace be upon your heart.
I stumbled on your blog while on a completely random hunt, originally on chapel veils. I read your entry on purifiers and loved it [I too will never look at a priest cleaning the chalice the same way again, with heartfelt thanks to you]. Your writing had spiritual depth, of a type I recognize and hunger for. I thought I'd check out one more of your top-rated entries and see what other tasty things are on the menu. Next thing I knew, I found myself in a painful and very detailed emotional landscape of want and denial. Next came a LONG list of comments.
<smile of satisfaction for making it through them all>

You write powerfully. It's good for the soul to read about *real* choices, those that are hard because you desperately want the answer to be different from what you know to be right. I can't relate in terms of wanting kids as strongly as you do (32 year old female still trying to find a good match as a husband), but I can relate in terms of sheer emotional pain.

You convinced me that you're doing the right thing when it became apparent in your comments that you and your husband are not having communication issues whatsoever. You receive each other as fully as you can, compatibly with your mindset; you're both trying to do what's right. If things were not so, maybe there'd be room to "stand up and push/fight". But things are so, and the only thing you can do is bear the wait as graciously as possible. I commend you for how graciously you have been bearing it.
Maybe there's a wee li'l bit of room for improvement, if it were possible to gently nudge your husband in the direction of NFP instead of condoms. Even using condoms while practicing NFP is better than giving NFP up and just accepting condoms in your life. Of course, only you know if this objective can be pursued. If you can, you get the special bonus points of saving your husband from something extra to expiate, either here or in Purgatory.

I'd like to spend a few words on a perspective I have not seen mentioned in the comments. I think your battle is a battle of faith. Of course, to some extent all battles are battles of faith, but this one is, from my point of view, *fundamentally* a battle of faith. It's just so emotionally heavy that sustaining the pain drains all the clarity and one ends up losing sight of exactly which question is the real battleground.
It seems to me that you are not one bit lacking faith in God in general, nor in his Will being always to your benefit, nor in many other aspects of trust that most catholics have huge problems with. I think that you have yet to make a definitive choice on how you want to interpret what God has been telling you for years. Until you do that, the enemy can use it to torture your heart.

God has given you, from a very early age, the acute awareness that you would have children. You have been preparing for them for a long time. You write to them in your diary. You make room for them in your life. You evaluate your choices in the light of their future presence. Please let not the super-secularized world we're living in convince you that these were just childhood fantasies.
They are not. They are a promise, a precognition of what is to come. He's been preparing you, growing you into a mama every day more. God wrote this in your heart. The question is: do you believe His promise? Can you have the patient unshakable faith of Abraham?

"I am the mother of children I'll never meet", you say ."I will never have the family I'd always envisioned" -- this is despair of the mind. It's what happens when we believe a lie. It hurts like crazy -- because it is a lie, not because it is the truth. Strange and beautiful how that works, eh?

God has given you the most amazing reassurance YEARS in advance of this cross. There *will* be children after your first. Of course there will be children, because God is faithful. He didn't send you inspirations just to come up with a way to make the lack of kids weigh on your soul even more. He sent you inspirations to teach you to think of yourself as a mother, to impress this calling upon your soul and to do so early on, before the enemy could come in and do his best to spoil the picture. He did it so that you could find comfort, holding this as surety in your heart, in the times of trial.

The enemy is very active in twisting hearts into raw pain. To exasperate the suffer

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AnnInFL
11/14/2015 01:46:41 am

Sorry, but your husband is being selfish. You should insist that he give you another child. You can promise to do all the work of raising the child. That should satisfy him.

That is the agreement my husband made with me when I desperately wanted a third child. He was adamantly against it. He said he was too old and tired (at the age of 36) and didn't want any more. But I kept asking. He said he would agree if it was what I needed to be happy. But I would have to do everything myself -diapers, late night feedings, etc. I agreed to the deal.

When our beautiful daughter, Lily was born, he loved her, but he stayed at arms length. He refused to change diapers. He often sulked and refused to be the same kind of dad he was for our other two children. He kept reminding me how he never wanted a third child. I thought he was being cruel. I worried that he would resent her forever. But I said nothing. I bore my cross and bided my time.

Gradually, slowly, he came around. As Lily grew bigger, he delighted in her. He stopped telling me how he hadn't wanted her. She's 12 now, and he couldn't be a more proud, loving dad to her. He tells me all the time how glad he is that I insisted on another baby. He regained his Catholic faith and now says he wishes we had even more children!

So, people can change. Sometimes you have to insist on what you need to be happy. If your husband loves you, he will give you another child. Just ASK. Before it's too late. Best wishes and God bless.

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Gaudencia Masingu link
6/4/2018 04:55:28 am


I commend you and your husband and son to the Sacred heart of Jesus to help you in this situation and for the miracle of another child or of a peace that surpasses all understanding. Stay close to Mary. Thank you for your courage.

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masingu link
6/5/2018 03:11:17 am

I believe there is power in prayer. Get an army of people to pray for this situation aka rosaries/masses and God will move mountains.

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Gaudencia Masingu link
6/5/2018 03:17:32 am

I believe there is power in prayer. Get an army of people to pray for this situation aka rosaries/masses and God will move mountains.

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thankful4mercy
7/21/2018 09:43:30 am

Praying for you and your husband. This is an incredible cross for you both and thank you for sharing from your heart. Much love from a reader who just found your blog.

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Linda
3/4/2019 02:29:00 pm

Dear Sister in Christ,
God bless you for pouring out your soul, and may God heal you from having to endure such awful replies. I realize this is an old post, but pray you have become even more saintly through this trial.
Love, Linda

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