 Shhh - I've got a secret to share... This is a post I've attempted to start dozens of times. I'm half wondering what's going to happen to this one. Will this be the one that gets published? Or will this one, too, be drowned out by tears, frustration, anger or sadness? Guess the only way to find out is to keep typing. My earliest memories revolve around my two younger siblings (both sisters) whom I always tried to "mother hen." I'd initiate games, I'd always be the "teacher" during pretend play, and I'd be the one that would organize and direct whatever mischief we'd get ourselves into. However, I never liked dolls. That was my sister's thing. Maria was the quintessential "mother." She'd run around carrying her dolls everywhere, being sure to feed, diaper and burp them. I was much more interested in real babies. Plastic recreations simply made me feel cheated. I wanted real children to play with!  Like this in hot pink molded plastic! I remember one Christmas, "Santa" brought me a swing for dolls. Santa, mind you, was our neighbor, Stan, who would dress up and bring us gifts on a random night leading up to Christmas - we all looked forward to that special visit every year. Anyway, the year he gave me the doll swing, I knew a mistake had been made. "Santa," I said, "I think this is Maria's gift." Truth be told, Maria's eyes were glistening with jealousy. She hadn't opened her present yet, but boy did she want mine! It was pink and white and perfect for any doll lucky enough to find itself seated there. Santa replied that he was certain the swing was mine because he picked it out especially for me. He knew I'd need it for the gift Maria was getting. Turns out she was given a Baby Alive type doll - moving parts, eyes that opened and closed, and she even giggled after sipping her bottle. Maria was absolutely in her glories, and she immediately went to town cooing over the new "baby doll" she was given charge over. I took its spoon and tried to figure out how the disappearing peas worked. That night, feeling completely gypped, I went to bed angry with Santa for not knowing that I thought baby dolls were stupid. What he said about me needing it for Maria irritated me even more, because my Christmas present should've been for ME, not for Maria. Obviously I was a selfish little brat at 5 years old. *Sheepish grin* Anyway, I'd love to say that I immediately learned my lesson but I didn't. It took me a few days of sulking before I understood that "Santa" had wanted to foster sharing between my sister and I. Shannon, at this point, was still too young to really play with Maria and I (though I remember trying to get her into the doll swing at one point). I also tried to get our cat, Sparky, in there, but he refused to have any parts of it.  Finally, Maria said to me that her dolly wanted to take a ride in my swing. I knew her dolly didn't want to do anything of the sort. Dolls don't have emotions or desires. Maria just wanted to use my swing. Stupid doll. No, no she can't use my swing. It's my swing, and even though I think it's a stupid present, she can't use it because it's mine. Maria (being extremely sensitive at this point in time), crinkled her face at me and said I was being really mean. I should be nicer to the baby doll because her feelings were hurt now that I was being so mean. Just like I knew Maria was expressing her own desire to use the swing through the doll, I understood then that she was also letting me know she was hurt because I was being mean to her. Fully reproached, I handed over my swing to let her play to her heart's content. I was the big sister... it was my job to be nice to Maria, even if I thought what she wanted to do was stupid. I realized, too, that letting her play with the swing made me feel like a mom. I spent a while with her, just helping her play, wondering if that's what our mother felt like when she sat down to play a game with me. I was proud of myself because I knew what I was doing was right. I was acting like a real mom - something I'd always, always wanted to be - even from an early age.  Anyway, fast forward through the years. I began keeping a diary. The diary wasn't just a collection of angst-y whining that is typical of a tween (but boy is there a lot of that in there!). It was a history lesson meant to show my future children that I was once exactly like them. My entries always called out my future progeny. I'd write letters to them, or when I'd describe the mischief I'd get into, I'd say "So don't think Mommy doesn't know what kind of games you're playing when you just say you're going out with friends! I know better!" Really. I did this from my very first diary entry (I still have them all) and continue right up until present day. All throughout my pregnancy with Vincent I'd write him little love notes telling him about all the excitement his very existence brought. I'd mention his future brothers and sisters, telling them that I couldn't wait to feel the same excitement for them, just so they didn't feel left out at all the talk about Vincent. I always imagined my kids finding my set of diaries in a forgotten box in the attic. They'd laugh at the same entries that now make me cringe, they'd be surprised by some of my antics, and they'd learn something from my more vulnerable moments. It was always my hope that these diaries would give them a window into who Mommy is outside of just "Mommy." I always wanted my kids to understand that I'm a person with emotions that rival their own... that Mommy DOES understand the hurt of lost friendships, the joy of new romance, and the thrill of independence. You see, in my mind, these children already exist. They always have. I've been longing for them from my earliest memories. I've thought of them, planned for them, and made many decisions based on what their future perception of me would be (hence my lack of tattoos even though I've always really, really wanted one). I've just been waiting for them to finally arrive so I could meet them. ... That's what makes this entry so incredibly difficult for me. I am the mother of children I'll never meet.  I am not infertile. John is not infertile. Neither of us are sterilized, and there isn't even an age issue considering we're both young enough to not have the fear that accompanies the pregnancies of older mothers. Why, then, am I lamenting the fact that I will never have the family I'd always envisioned? Here is my secret... My husband does not want any more children and defends his desire to use birth control to ensure I remain barren. This is typically the moment I delete the entry and lock myself in a bathroom. The thought of other people knowing that this is my reality is incredibly scary. To even admit that this is my reality is tantamount to me "giving up" on my kids - the ones who always have (and always will) exist in my heart, just waiting to be given a body to hug me with. Ugh - each passing sentence has me feeling like I'm walking through thicker and thicker mud. I keep stopping mid-sentence, unsure if I can continue, half-wanting to retreat and find that aforementioned bathroom. However, I won't stop this time. The pain of secrecy is almost as much to bear as the pain of vulnerability now. The last couple weeks have been particularly thorny for me, which I think is why I'm now feeling the overwhelming "urge to purge" through writing.  Several friends recently had children (with about a dozen more expecting). I'm both ridiculously happy for these friends and admittedly jealous. I am truly thrilled for the new life they're bringing forth because they all deserve the happiness that these children will undoubtedly bring, but I also have a twinge of jealousy that I don't get to experience growing my family as well. Every time I hold their newborns or see the pictures on Facebook, my heart both grows with joy and falls apart with grief. I don't say anything to anyone about this, because God forbid anyone feel guilty about sharing their joy with the world. I would never want that. I really do enjoy sharing in their joy, and I am content to keep my grief my own. I really am. However, the questions are getting to be too much, the insinuations too hurtful, and the comments too overwhelming. Over Christmas, we spent time with a family that just had a newborn. Of course, I was more than happy to hold her to give her mom a break. Several comments were made by my family that I looked good with a baby girl (or maybe I'd be next, etc). I both appreciated the comments and just about died from how overwhelmed with grief I felt. More than anything I'd like to add a few more names to the family tree, but I knew what they didn't. Their longing for grandchildren / cousins / nieces / nephews pales in comparison to mine. Couple it with the fact that I needed to keep that tid-bit to myself only made it worse. I was walking around choking back tears knowing that I couldn't provide what we all wanted. Over Easter, we spent time with this same family. The new mom asked when John and I would be having another. Thank God for sunglasses, because tears immediately sprang to my eyes. Having been bombarded for weeks with babies and pregnancy reveals, I was barely able to conceal the pain as I murmured, "Hopefully one day. Still haven't quite convinced John the timing's right." I then looked up at the ride my niece was on and made some sort of comment about her making an adorable face. I couldn't actually see Alliya's face, but it immediately brought the conversation to a halt as the mom tried to search her out among the crowd.  My beautiful Alliya! Later that afternoon, my niece saw me with the baby again. As she and Vincent were dancing around the living room, she said, "Aunt Gina, do you want another baby?" I smiled at her and said, "Alliya, I'd like 100 more babies." She laughed (as did my mother-in-law) and replied, "Why did you have Vincent?" I said, "Because I loved him so very much." My mother-in-law was trying to answer her as well, but Alliya was pretty intent on my response. She's a smart one! She didn't accept my answer as good enough, so she pressed me further with: "Then why don't you have more?" Her innocent question was more loaded than she realized, and I fault her none for the immediate torrent of grief that coursed through me. I pulled the newborn against me and kissed her head, once again taken hostage by my pained knowledge that the baby I held wasn't mine and likely never would be. I soon handed the baby back to her mother so I could recollect myself in private. I could see John sitting on the porch talking to the men and it made me slightly irritated that he never got these kinds of questions. These were conversations for women, not men. Besides, even if someone did ask him about children, he'd nonchalantly express his contentment with Vincent (which is fine). Then this weekend, we spent some time with my best friend's family. She and her brothers have exactly the kind of relationship I always knew my kids would have with one another. Watching Mary and her siblings play ball in the yard together was both wonderful and painful. When I think of the children I'll never have, I can't help but feel like I'm cheating Vincent out of his siblings. I mean, I even asked John about that - he and his siblings have a good relationship. Didn't he think that Vincent deserved the same? And then I worry about when we get older - will Vince be forced to care for us by himself? Will he have no support system with which to rely when John and I die? It's one thing to share this sorta pain with your friends - it's entirely different to share it with those who know EXACTLY the loss you feel. Who but a sibling can share that sort of grief with you? And then what if Vincent does grow up and decide to become a priest (I can only pray - ha!). In addition to me not having children, I would then also be denied grandchildren. These things are painful to me alone. John doesn't really desire these things, so there isn't any loss for him in that regard. And that's fair. I can't (and wouldn't) force him into caring for something that is a non-issue. He can't be faulted for his feelings on this subject. Considering how bombarded we are anymore regarding children being nothing more than a hinderance to personal gratification and success, I really am unsurprised. He was afraid I'd resent him for his feelings, but I can't. I understand his feelings and they are valid. So please don't attack him for that which he has no real control over. His feelings are just as strong (and valid) as mine. Hiding this flood of emotion has become extremely taxing. I don't like to bombard John with it, and I certainly never want to "out" him to his family (because no doubt there would be some head-wagging from certain corners). I also never want to make others feel bad for sharing their joy - or even making comments that imply the children I'd bear are wanted. But the pain is there. It is palpable, and I honestly think this must be what couples struggling with infertility face. It has made me much more sensitive to my own comments regarding children and time-frames that revolve around them. After all, I'm kind of dealing with a forced sterility. No, that's not fair. It's not forced. It took me a while, but I've recently come to understand that this is something I have willingly accepted for the benefit of my husband.  Lady and the Atheist For a while, he was worried I'd grow to resent him for his unwillingness to grow our family. He'd avoid the topic like the Plague, afraid that if he was honest about his desire to remain a one-child family, I'd divorce him for someone who would give me what I wanted. In fact, he suggested I do that, himself, during one of the many heated debates we had about this. He was also concerned I'd attempt to force a pregnancy. God only knows how he thought I'd do that. I explained I'd never force a child into a situation in which he or she might end up resented. For as much as I want these children, I'd never want to raise them in an environment in which they weren't given the unconditional love due to them. Besides, I didn't marry John because he'd be my baby-factory. I married John because I love him and saw a future with him. We did have discussions on children before marriage, and I've always envisioned a large family. His vision changed along the way (hence the situation I now find myself in). Regardless, I vowed to stick it out with him. I didn't vow to stick it out with him so long as he conformed to my desires for a large family. Now two of my friends who are aware of the situation have pointed out that John, himself, vowed to be open to life. That opens the door to an easy annulment so I could drop him and move on. While I understood they were attempting to help me "out" of my situation, they didn't understand that I didn't accept divorce (or even annulment) as an answer. Even though I technically have every right to dissolve the marriage because of his refusal to accept this particular vow, I would never do such a thing. It's non-sensical. Why? Well, for starters, I know without a doubt in my mind that John was meant to be my husband. When I prayed to Our Lady for a good man who would be an incredible father, the response was John. He is a good man and an incredible father. His ideas on the size of our family may have fluctuated, but his integrity as a person never has. Also his ability to provide a life for Vincent and I can never be called into question. I have more in John than most women could find in 100. For that, I am eternally grateful. Besides, if you think about it, marriage is a covenant. It's a promise between two people to uphold certain things, right? Well, how many covenants did God make with the Israelites? Plenty - each one of them broken by humanity. However, God never reneged on His end of the deal, right?  Maybe this is the cross Christ is asking me to bear. Thus, I offer this to Him for whatever it is that He needs it for. I admit that I really, REALLY struggle under the weight of it at times. These last few weeks have been the toughest by far. But I believe that He never gives us something so heavy that His Grace can't prop us up enough to handle it.
In accepting this, I think I really came to understand what I've always said about Christ's love. When I explained to John the sacrifice I was willingly making for him (and thus, for our marriage), he responded with, "I don't deserve so much sacrifice. It's too much." I heard myself in his voice. I really did. We were having this heart-to-heart in bed when he said that, and I can honestly say I immediately pictured myself at the foot of the Cross saying the same thing to Jesus. The point of sacrifice is NOT that the person you're sacrificing for deserves it. A real sacrifice is a gift of love, given freely because you WANT to give it without any expectation for repayment. That quote I found a few months ago was right: Love transforms suffering into sacrifice. It is LOVE that enables me to make this sacrifice without contempt, without resentment, and without anger. That doesn't mean I won't feel intense emotional pain. Love just gives me the strength to survive it... to endure it willingly for the benefit of both John and Christ. That knowledge is the only thing that gives me solace. I understand this is a wound that won't heal... and maybe it's not meant to. Maybe it needs to stay fresh with each innocent comment, each new pregnancy, and each new experience I have seeing siblings tottering around the park together while Vince unsuccessfully tries to butt in and play, too. My ways are not His ways, and maybe He's got something in store for me up ahead. Just keep me and my family in your prayers. As I said, this has been an incredibly difficult few weeks (on an emotional level), and I'm hoping this entry lets off some of the steam that's been suffocating me. Also, for those of you still with me ('cause wow... this really got long), I appreciate the time you spent. Blessings to you and yours. ***PS - I've written a rebuttal to several of the more Negative Nancys who have written in to lament the many shameful things I've said. That can be found here.*** ***PPS - I've now had to swap commentary to "Approve First" due to the overwhelming number of respondents who have declared themselves Christ by judging my husband and I guilty of mortal sin. So feel free to comment, but know that if you overstep your bounds, I'm very friendly with the delete button.***
216 Comments
Theresa
4/18/2012 01:33:37 pm
This makes me sad for you as well. I just can't imagine you not having anymore children. You are just so natural with them. Sometimes when I'm over I just stare at you with Vincent because I'm so amazed at the way you are with him. I don't think I can ever accept you not having anymore children. I'm always going to hope that one day you might be blessed with one again. :)
Gina
4/18/2012 01:47:46 pm
Well,Sparky II is the cat you swore fell out of my bedroom window - ha ha. His predecessor (Sparky I) was who I attempted to shove into the swing.
Doug Pounds
7/31/2012 01:46:43 pm
I have been married to my wife Jacki of 27 years and she is suffering a cronic illness that is very taxing to me. Thanks for reminding me that our marriage is a covenant and not a contract. Lord, I pray for love to turn suffering into sacrifice.
Gina
9/4/2012 04:29:44 pm
I have no idea how I didn't see this until now, but Doug, that's beautiful.
Theresa
4/18/2012 01:56:13 pm
I don't remember what i said, you know me and my memory, I meant it though I'm sure.
I am so sorry. And, no, I don't think seeking annulment or divorce or anything is an answer. It would only cause more pain, more problems and bring the difficulties closer to Vincent. The situation is heart breaking but such a "solution" would only be more heart-breaking.
Gina
4/22/2012 11:42:02 am
Agreed - I've got St. Monica on speed-dial.
Colbe
9/14/2012 05:18:22 pm
Have you studied Humanae Vitae together, or the official Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P85.HTM
Lois
7/31/2012 03:58:28 am
I agree with Katherine about prayer. My suggestion would be to tell your husband you would like to go on a pilgrimage to Medjugorje and would like him to come with you. You could take little Vince too.
Anon
4/23/2012 08:10:04 am
Sheesh, I just cried and I'm not sure if it's because your situation is so sad, or that your response to it is so loving. Your husband is a lucky man to have such a strong and loving a wife. I'll add my prayers. Sheesh.
Dianne L.
4/23/2012 08:18:13 am
Natalie (Anon) sent me this link and I agree with her.
Michelle Grande
4/27/2012 04:39:46 am
This made me cry for how sad it was too. But sad for entirely different reasons.
Michelle,
Gina
4/27/2012 06:28:15 am
@Michelle,
Catherine
4/29/2012 03:50:16 am
@Michelle Grade
Michelle Grande
4/30/2012 02:55:51 am
"I didn't fight back against rape because God wanted me to bear that cross."
Jane
4/30/2012 03:12:25 am
I feel like Michelle is on to something. If this were really about you looking to provide an outlet for your feelings, you'd have no problem hitting the delete button now that it's blown up with a chance of spreading back to your husband. Epic guilt trip.
Michelle
4/30/2012 03:14:21 am
If I admit to a divorce, you'll point and blame my argument on bitter feelings. If I say no, you'll just say I'm lying because there's no way to prove one way or the other.
Gina
4/30/2012 03:25:22 am
For the record, I'm able to see that you and Jane share the same IP address.
Catherine
4/30/2012 03:36:08 am
@Michelle-
chux
7/31/2012 02:05:00 am
just stop the pill and get pregnant. the man will adjust to the new reality
Gina
7/31/2012 02:20:53 am
I don't take contraception, Chux. He does.
Gina
4/23/2012 08:35:53 am
Ha ha - I guess your buddy just ratted you out, Natalie! No worries, your e-mail is still safe. *Grin*
Lenore
7/31/2012 06:03:17 am
This is my only question. If the Church teaches that contraception is a sin in the marital relationship and Gina is going along with it, is not her husband causing her to sin? I find this very interesting. Protestants believe in submitting to your husband as he submits to God. One cannot happen without the other. I would definitely feel a bit wary of consenting to sin. If that is what it is.
Patty
4/25/2012 03:12:56 pm
I can not imagine how difficult it must be for you to know that your husband persists in the state of mortal sin by practicing contraception (or abuse of NFP). I would strongly urge you to help him to see the grave disservice he is doing to both you and your marriage by engaging in these actions. I hope you have a good priest who will hold him accountable for his actions. It is admirable for you to love your husband, however when his actions threaten his immortal soul, your role lies in doing everything in your power to avert that eternal consequence which is actions warrant. I know you probably won't post this but from one wife to another, you are enabling his sin if you don't act, so please do everything you can to help him to see the sin in what he is doing.
Gina
4/25/2012 04:24:49 pm
Thank you for stopping by, Patty. I appreciate the fact that you're worried for both our souls and all, but I think I've got a much better read on the situation.
Michelle Armesto
4/26/2012 03:35:04 pm
I have to agree with you. I feel that as a fellow Catholic, you cannot put your vow before the God-given rules of the Church. I was in a similar situation, but my husband was abusive and an addict. I tried everything to get him in a good place, but eventually, I realized the harm to my children and myself, in doing so. I pray that something happens soon for him to realize that his actions are putting your soul in danger. God bless!
Gina
4/27/2012 01:36:26 am
Michelle, his actions do not and cannot put my soul in danger. We am not held accountable for the personal choices of another. That's not how the Catholic view of sin works.
Susan
4/25/2012 03:37:22 pm
My heart truly breaks for you about this, though it is clear that God is using this cross to draw you closer to Him.
Gina
4/25/2012 04:30:56 pm
Susan, my appreciation for your kind words and prayers. If ever you two are blessed with another, my prayers are with you for a healthy, worry-free pregnancy!
AM
4/25/2012 04:10:04 pm
My heart breaks for you - I know this pain. My first relationship ended badly after a late term stillbirth and a daughter, who at the time was 18 months old. After numerous dating failures I met the man of my dreams whom I've now married - he loved my daughter like she was his own, loved me unconditionally, respected me like no man ever had. I realised he was someone that I, that we, could grow with.
Gina
4/25/2012 04:34:36 pm
Oh AM! My heart goes out to you. No doubt you're ever surrounded by the most brilliant of cherubs. Thank you for having the courage to post this! I am of the "meh" attitude when it comes to children, knowing full well that in a Catholic marriage, I will end up having some. This terrifies me beyond belief. My husband, on the other hand, really REALLY wants to have kids. Like, yesterday. So in some ways, I think I can identify with your husband. But I also know that to purposely avoid pregnancy forever would be detrimental to my soul and my marriage. Tell you what-- pray that my heart is softened (any woman with the amount of grace and poise in your situation must have a direct line to someone up there) and I will pray to the Blessed Mother that you are given what is best for you-- whether that be another baby or your husband having a change of heart. Maybe we can both come out happy.
Gina
4/25/2012 04:37:01 pm
Amen, Paige. Be assured of my Divine Mercy chaplet.
Gina
4/27/2012 03:25:18 am
Oh my goodness - just visited your blog (thanks for leaving the link!). You officially have the best blog title ever!!! Ha ha.
Jeanne
4/25/2012 04:43:14 pm
Wow!
Gina
4/25/2012 05:04:55 pm
As I mentioned in the entry, yes, we talked about family size beforehand. His ideal family sized changed. Mine didn't.
Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:04:37 pm
Wow! This was like reading my own story. I am the mother of 3 boys (7, 3 1/2, & 7mos.). I myself am from a large Catholic family. There are 7 kids in total and oodles of cousins all the same age that are just like siblings. My husband was raised Baptist and is terrified of the Catholic faith so we don't have the common religious views either. We also discussed before marriage our desire to have lots of kids but his view has also changed in the 9 years that we have been married. I am itching to have another little one as soon as my youngest isn't a little baby anymore. Honestly, I've always wanted a girl and it breaks my heart to think that I might never have a daughter. I too envision what my other children would be like, look like, act like, etc. I wonder if my next would be a boy or girl. Would he/she have blonde hair too? Would he/she love to nurse and snuggle? *sigh* I have a hard time not resenting my husband and his view of no more kids. He's always joking that he's going to get a vasectomy and not tell me. I try really hard to understand his viewpoint but I just don't get it. He goes to work and I am the one that stays at home raising our children. I'm the one that homeschools them, cleans the house, runs the errands, etc. so I don't see why he thinks having another child would be such a hardship for him. The only logical reason I can think of is his age. I am only 31 but he just turned 40. Perhaps when he was younger he envisioned his life at a different place in his 40s? He has told me that he wants all of the kids either out of the house or in high school by the time he retires (he has mandatory retirement at 57) so we can enjoy our retirement years. I get where he's coming from but at the same time I think it's selfish of him to tell God "No thanks. We don't want your blessings. It interferes with my plans." I am one of those lucky women that has problem-free pregnancies and deliveries. I breastfeed, use cloth diapers, and make my own babyfood so he really can't say it's a financial thing. Grrrr It's just so frustrating! Anyway, I will try to remember what you wrote about sacrifice the next time I get upset. Anything to help me through those lonely sad thoughts will help. Thank you so much for sharing your story so I know I'm not the only one out there that grieves over children that I might never meet. You will be in my prayers!
Gina
4/25/2012 05:07:40 pm
Oh my gosh, John jokes about the secret vasectomy, too! He was doing it while I was in labor with Vincent (I'm not even kidding!).
Gina
7/31/2012 02:49:17 am
I would hope they reveal my sense of humor. :) Anything else is a stretch.
Brian
8/1/2012 10:09:01 am
Maybe Gina is just too literal like I am. I never write LOL because I'm never actually laughing out loud. I had noticed she used Ha Ha and I appreciated it. Time for a new shorthand for "chuckling silently to myself". Is there anything for that? Otherwise, out with LOL and in with CSTM.
Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:07:53 pm
BTW, I was led here from a FB group I follow: "The Guggie Daily via Unconditional Partners, Unconditionally Parenting" :)
Gina
4/25/2012 05:10:29 pm
I have never heard of that, but I assume that's where all the recent traffic is coming from...
Scarlett
4/25/2012 05:19:36 pm
The Guggie Daily is kind kind of a "crunchy organic" parenting FB group and Unconditional Partners... is also a parenting group that focuses on attachment parenting and marriage while keeping Christ in mind.
Gina
4/25/2012 05:32:30 pm
Ha ha - you're so sweet! I would LOVE to hang out and grab coffee! But alas... that darn East Coast / West Coast business does create a problem. I'd just never get home in time to bath Vince!
Brian
8/1/2012 10:05:50 am
Maybe Gina is just literal like I am. I never write LOL, because I'm never actually laughing out loud. Instead I write Ha Ha. I had just noticed that Gina does this too and I appreciated it. Maybe I need to create a new shorthand for "chuckling silently to myself". Out with LOL, in with CSTM.
Charla
4/25/2012 05:06:42 pm
If you feel like John was meant to be your husband, then it is your job to pray and suffer for his holiness in spite of his weakness. And which of us has fully acheived holiness? Turn to St. Joseph.
Gina
4/25/2012 05:09:30 pm
Your comment states my feelings exactly. John was a gift - I know that. I love him and appreciate him as a husband, father and friend. So if this is what's being asked of me in return, it is but a pittance, right?
Jeanne
4/25/2012 05:23:23 pm
I'm sorry- I had gone back and re read and realized you had said that about family size.
Gina
4/25/2012 05:30:03 pm
Ha ha, Jeanne, you don't have to worry about me thinking I'm being scolded. You're entitled to your opinions, and as you said, I did post this out there. I honestly didn't think it'd go farther than the few people who typically drop by, but maybe this is the Holy Spirit's way of opening the door to communication for folks in the same boat.
Patty
4/25/2012 05:39:06 pm
We see what sacrifice you are making, but exactly what is the sacrifice your husband is making? He sees that this is something dear to your heart and is in fact causing you great emotional pain and yet, unless he 'flips the switch' on his desire to have children, your pain is not important enough to him for him to give you your heart's desire? Does he honestly think he would not love another child of your union? Marriage is about self-sacrifice and sometimes doing things you don't necessarily want to because you love someone. Where and what is his sacrifice?
Gina
4/25/2012 05:48:45 pm
This is a question I've gotten from those friends who know the situation. I dropped by from Catholic Bloggers Network. I don't know if this helps or not. We had three little ones when my husband became overwhelmed- not that I blame him. For several years, we somehow avoided pregnancy. The year I turned 30, our "surprise" was born. The most surprising thing was that I panicked when I first found out I was pregnant- hubby was calm as could be. After her arrival, hubby, out of the blue, said that we needed to be open to as many children as God wanted to send our way. And that was before we understood the church teaching on being open to life! I won't say many more trials haven't come our way. We lost 8 pregnancies, but did have 3 more children eventually. Being open to life was one thing, but I have to say being open to death is a whole 'nother ball game. God really brought me to my knees on that one! Anyway, pray for your husband (as you obviously are) and trust God- He does amazing things!
Lauren
4/25/2012 08:42:08 pm
What is it that changed your husband's mind? What is he so afraid of or uncomfortable with about having more children?
Gina
4/25/2012 11:20:13 pm
We've gone through this more than enough times. We've reached a logical and workable solution for our family. This isn't something that needs to be discussed with a counselor as we'd end up coming to the same conclusion. We've already done the job of a counselor. We've come to a deep understanding of one another's feelings on this, and no amount of counseling is going to change that. 4/25/2012 11:33:19 pm
I'll be praying for you. That seems like a very difficult cross to carry (and difficult one to share, you brave woman!). Your husband may change his mind.
Gina
4/25/2012 11:34:33 pm
Thank you, Allicia and Mandi. I really am humbled by the outpouring of prayer on our behalf. Be assured of my prayers in return. May you and your families both be blessed for such spiritual generosity!
Natalie
4/26/2012 03:01:16 am
Your post was very moving. There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that God can't do....So pray, pray hard, fast, pray the divine mercy chaplet and rosary that your husband has a change of heart. You may be very surprised to find that God moves him. It may take time, patience and lots of prayer on your part but I think God just might soften him up and change his mind. ;-) You, your husband and family will all be in my prayers from now on. God Bless!!! Natalie
Anna
4/26/2012 04:43:05 am
I'm one of the minority but I am siding with your husband here. He is an atheist. You married him in spite of it. To expect him to abide by the same principles of Catholicism is setting up for failure. I'm sorry your husband made the decision to not have anymore children, but that should have been made crystal clear before your wedding day. Reading through all the comments, I don't see your husband as heartless or selfish. I see him abiding by the principles in which he believes and that you knew when you decided to marry a non-Christian.
"Reading through all the comments, I don't see your husband as heartless or selfish. I see him abiding by the principles in which he believes and that you knew when you decided to marry a non-Christian."
Gina
4/26/2012 03:29:52 pm
Apparently you didn't read the article, Anna. This has very little to do with Catholicism (at least on his end) as the number of children we were open to was agreed upon before we married (which you incorrectly implied wasn't the case).
Brit
4/26/2012 05:38:44 am
Why do his desires trump yours? What reasons for not having more children does he have that are so important that they warrant this sort of sacrifice and suffering on your behalf? Money? Freedom? You say that his reasons are valid and that he wishes he could just flip a switch and feel differently about it all, but the truth is that adults everyday choose to do things that they don't *feel* like doing. He can still choose this, even if he doesn't feel it. It must be very hard to be a devoted Catholic in a sacramental marriage with a person who does not even believe in God. I truly admire your love for your husband and for Christ. Your family is in my prayers.
Brit
4/26/2012 07:16:03 am
I did not mean for my comment to sound uncharitable earlier. Upon rereading it I realize that it might sound a bit like an attack upon your husband. What I really was trying to express is that there is fine line to walk in life and in suffering. God does not want us to allow others to walk all over us. You can listen to his reasons and worries without accepting them as being reasonable or moral. If you allow him to prioritize his anxieties over you and your moral principles, it will only set you up for more of it in the future. By letting him "off the hook" so to say, you are setting up expectations that he will always be allowed to choose his own feelings over you. I agree with you- divorce is certainly not the answer nor is "tricking him" into getting you pregnant. But you can still say, "I can't accept no for an answer." Marriage is about compromise, not about one person taking on all the suffering so that the other person never has to do anything hard. I feel like I am much like you in this and in the past, had I been in your same situation I probably would have reacted in a very similar fashion. But unfortunately I have learned the hard way that real, Godly love is not just about taking your spouses share of suffering upon your shoulders for the sake of peace, but about holding them accountable when they are in the wrong. He is wrong and there is a loving, charitable way of letting him know that.
Gina
4/26/2012 03:34:46 pm
Thanks for stopping by, Brit. No worries - I didn't take your commentary in a negative way.
Michelle Armesto
4/26/2012 03:54:18 pm
But, Gina, you are making a grave mistake by repeating over and over again that children should only be conceived in love. That's liberal bs and you know it. It'd be nice if all children could come into a world that is perfect, but unfortunately that is not the case for most. You should want Heaven and true love( only from God) for them. Not death and limbo. I'm done. Praying for your husband.
Gina
4/27/2012 01:27:12 am
Michelle,
Michelle
4/27/2012 04:38:19 am
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/morality/family/nfamp.htm
Gina
4/27/2012 04:51:30 am
Michelle,
You have amazing courage for finally posting this. I could have written this myself and have even attempted a post cery similar, but I never had the courage to hit publish.
Gina
4/26/2012 03:35:39 pm
Be assured of my prayers, and thank you for yours! {hugs}
Carri
4/27/2012 01:22:32 am
Dear Gina,
Gina
4/27/2012 01:31:51 am
Thank YOU - your comment sums up a lot of what I've been feeling in reacting to some of these comments.
My situation has similarities to yours, and yet is very different. I am a cradle Catholic, and I married someone who was atheist when we met. He was welcomed into the Church a few years before we were married. But that doesn't mean he agrees with, or understands Church teaching. It's been a struggle. Initially we agreed to four children. After number 2 he changed his mind. Then we got pregnant with number three and he was stillborn. It devastated us both. Though my husband didn't welcome our baby with joy, he came to love him with time, hence making the loss terribly hard. We've since had another, but my husband is dead set against more children and would welcome my using artificial birth control, I am certain, to make sure it never happened. My pregnancies are very difficult and I barely make it through each one, another reason he doesn't want to get pregnant again...having to see me go through that. Honestly it scares me to death as well, but I would do it if God called me to. I am aware of Church teaching and the consequences of using artificial birth control and so I have refused. We exclusively practice Natural Family Planning. I can't say my husband loves it. In fact he was suspicious of its effectiveness for many years. We are still avoiding a pregnancy. We have serious reasons to avoid, and this is still within the accepted teaching of our faith. I don't want to force my husband into something that will make him unhappy, however I must follow my heart and my convictions to my Lord. NFP allows me to do both. My husband must respect my choice to practice NFP because he knew ahead of time that was what he was marrying into. He doesn't have to like it, I don't like the idea of him getting a vasectomy (yes, he's mentioned the secret vasectomy too! If he chooses to do that, it is his choice for which he must answer). I am not breaking my vow in my marriage to be open to life, and I'm making sure that I am working with God's natural plan for my body. I see little movements of the Holy Spirit in my husband through my insistence on using it.
Gina
4/27/2012 04:54:20 am
Aw, Celeste, thank you so much for your testimony. What a lucky man your husband is!
Gina
4/27/2012 06:31:12 am
*thought* Darn it.
Sylvia
4/27/2012 08:15:27 am
Along the lines of Celeste's comment, I think your desire to love and sacrifice for your husband in this area and to be an example of Christian charity constitutes a serious, and clearly heart-rending, reason to avoid pregnancy--but I do hope and pray that you do so by licit means (NFP). My parents divorced several years ago, and I believe one of the contributing factors was that my dad was not Catholic and they were using contraception. Even on a natural level, contraception drives a wedge between a couple--and for those who are Catholic, the guilt of committing a sin with every marital act is very damaging. I don't mean to preach, but it really is a matter of conscience for you to refuse to use artificial contraception, as a tenet of the faith, and not something you can sacrifice for your husband's sake. Sin is not a sacrifice.
Joy
4/27/2012 08:13:10 am
Gina,
Gina
4/27/2012 08:35:41 am
Thank you for your comments, Joy.
Catherine
4/29/2012 03:33:50 am
Gina,
Gina
4/27/2012 08:40:02 am
Also, as for the children being conceived out of love, I still stand by this.
Joy
4/27/2012 08:34:19 am
Oh, that last part got cut off! It should read:
Gina
4/27/2012 08:40:40 am
You really are so sweet... my thanks! May the smile of Our Lady follow you always! <3 4/27/2012 10:04:35 am
Gina, I absolutely and whole-heartedly COMMEND you for taking such a risk and posting such a deep sentiment of suffering on cyberspace, where people feel they can judge, hate, and condemn you easily because they are not standing right in front of your tear-stained face. That is the unfortunate thing about the internet... however, it is also fortunate, because people like me can get to meet people like you! ;)
Gina
4/27/2012 01:34:18 pm
Shalimamma, 4/28/2012 01:37:38 am
Hugs to you, too, Gina!
Todd
5/1/2012 01:06:46 am
Found you through Catholic Dads (http://www.catholicdadsonline.org/posts/9559/on-dark-secrets/)
Mark S
5/1/2012 02:04:28 am
I'd like to know if your husband has read this. I saw you said he doesn't have to because you're open (and that's great), but there's something very powerfula bout what you've written here. Maybe you should have him read it.
Gina
5/1/2012 02:26:44 am
Hi Mark!
Hi Gentlemen! Thanks for dropping by.
Margaret S.
5/1/2012 08:07:59 am
I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to direct you and your readers to this site for a reflection on contraceptives. I think it'd be very useful for this entire debate. Prayers for you.
Gina
5/1/2012 08:13:29 am
Catholic Sistas! I'm a follower of their blog(s). Thanks for the link. Hers was a really nice entry with a lot of good stuff. I think it would be very beneficial to those looking to understand why contraception simply is not an option for us from a theological standpoint (and honestly, from a loving one).
Thadeus
5/2/2012 07:51:07 am
I came across your post through the blog "Catholic Dads." I VERY much appreciate you sharing on this very vulnerable topic. You have put it very well and spoken truth about love and suffering and sacrifice and Jesus.
friedafx
5/2/2012 08:17:05 am
ur tagged on reddit
Staci Morgan-Stinson
5/8/2012 03:21:04 am
This is up on The Nut House forums. I also saw it on a friend's facebook page, too.
Gina
5/8/2012 04:54:31 am
Hi Staci - thanks for dropping in (and for letting me know where you're coming from!).
Staci Morgan-Stinson
5/8/2012 04:57:30 am
Do you think if your son asked him he'd have any change of heart? It's really hard to deny your kid something like that! And wow you answered fast. Nice to see someone who moderates their stuff in a timely fashion.
Gina
5/8/2012 05:00:01 am
I get e-mailed every time someone comments - makes it super easy to read and respond to folks.
Autumn
5/8/2012 04:37:58 am
I'm truly sorry for your pain and know it must be a rough road you've traveled down thus far. I adore how respectful you are of your husbands wants and don't discredit them as any less valid then your own.
Autumn
5/8/2012 04:39:54 am
FYI: This is posted on www.tnh.proboards.com
Gina
5/8/2012 04:49:01 am
Hi Autumn,
Amber Keenan
5/10/2012 01:03:40 am
You two should seek counseling for something like this. My husband and I faced a similar issue with adoption, and it was only through therapy that we were able to trudge our way through these feelings. Obviously your emotions are too strong to remain stable, and obviously his selfishness isn't caving any time soon. As you said, this isn't a compromise you can make, so you have to go to therapy in order to either come to terms with your emotions or have him get past his selfishness. PM me for a good therapist. Found you through TNH.
Gina
5/10/2012 02:21:31 am
Hi Amber, thanks for stopping by.
Gina
5/10/2012 02:25:15 am
I should mention, however, that we did try therapy for a time. While we were given some entertaining exercises to try, they were ultimately pointless as we were already well beyond the realm of "explore your feelings and be honest with one another about them."
Gina
5/10/2012 02:27:27 am
I should mention, however, that we did try therapy for a time (I think we did like 5 or 6 sessions?). While we were given some entertaining exercises to try, they were ultimately pointless as we were already well beyond the realm of "explore your feelings and be honest with one another about them." 5/10/2012 03:31:31 am
Helloooooo! ;)
Gina
5/10/2012 04:27:22 am
Apparently deep, dark secrets are exactly what any blog can use to spruce up interest. LoL.
Lauren
5/10/2012 02:42:56 am
OMGawd with the therapy already! WTF is it with women and this need for therapy for everything? Doesn't enyone know how to take care of their own problems anymore? Dayum! Stop watching Housewives of NY, OC or Whinesville and you might figure out that you can solve things without doctors, lipo or alcohol. GAWWWD!
Gina
5/10/2012 03:13:26 am
Says the woman who spends at least a dozen hours a week watching shows like Addiction, Toddlers and Tiaras and John and Kate plus Eight. LoL 5/10/2012 03:36:08 am
Sorry, but Lauren, you crack me up. I am going to use "Dayum" in a future writing... Lol! (For the record, I love alcohol, and need lipo... but my favorite therapy is chocolate. ;)
Lauren
5/10/2012 04:13:06 am
Yessssssssss. Chocolate solves everything! Those meltaway Dove squares are like tasty little clouds of Heaven.
Lauren
5/10/2012 04:08:14 am
I adopted the term from Gina, shalimamma. She used to use it in her cussin' days as a way to skirt the chat system from banning her for her pirate mouth! None of you ladies would ever guess that about her pious little soul now, would you? Hahahahahhahha
Gina
5/10/2012 04:19:17 am
Let's leave my potty mouth out of this. *blush* Though I think I might have to adopt the term "pirate mouth."
Oh Gina! Hugs!
Gina
5/13/2012 02:12:52 pm
{hugs} Thanks so much for those prayers!!! 5/14/2012 01:51:35 am
Hang in there. :) I've lived similar things -- not exactly the same, as no two crosses are ever the same -- and you're in my prayers. God bless you and may you feel Him carrying you through all of this ... 5/14/2012 01:52:18 am
p.s. I found you through a Google+ post as I was attempting to catch up over there.
Ashley
6/20/2012 09:19:36 am
I just have to say how moved I was by this! I was also challenged to really think. Right now, I am the one who isn't sure if I want more children or not. (I am currently pregnant) all this time, I have figured "we have time to figure that out, right?". But maybe we don't. I feel like I really need to reflect and think about my child's future life as well as mine and my husband's. I so appreciate that you have opened up like this! I have never read your blogs before, but a friend from another blog site directed me to this blog, specifically and I am very glad to have read it! Recently, we were engaged in a discussion on our blog site, about what we would do if we wanted a baby and our husbands decided (after trying for quite some time) that it was too difficult to go through more and just gave up on children all together. It was interesting to see the responses, and this post just summed up my feelings on the subject so beautifully! :)
Hi Ashley,
Ashley
6/20/2012 10:04:06 am
I know I'm like, way behind on the response here, but I'm from the nuthouse! Lol saw you commented over there too. I haven't been on in a while and just saw this today! Anyway, I'm 15 weeks now. And thank you for your prayers! That is very sweet of you! :)
Gina
6/20/2012 12:35:37 pm
Nutties are always welcome here. Ha ha.
Susan Adams
6/29/2012 10:22:11 am
Gina- thanks for such honest sharing. I will certainly keep you in my prayers and your comments have helped me to be more sensitive to our Churches teachings and how difficult the situation can be for husband and wife.
Jean
7/18/2012 04:31:21 am
This is horrible. I'm sorry your husband won't give you more children, but you've made your bed. Posting this publicly to garner so much attention is a passive aggressive way to get what you want. Also posting it under the guise of being a pious catholic hurts those of us who understand that some situations call for divorce and annulment. You are providing a bad example for other women who face a similar situation. You don't stay in a marriage that is emotionally abusive, and that's what this most obviously is. He is emotionally abusive, whether you want to remain blind to that or not.
I get that I posted this publicly. I get that opens me up to criticism. I even get that some folks, like yourself, attempt to provide that criticism with the best of intentions.
I'm not sure how another person assuming what the Church assumes, that all marriages are held to be valid until proven otherwise, would somehow effect the case of those who have cause to seek an annulment. That seems a little out there to me. Do you really believe that members of the tribunal go around looking for cases of women who don't seek annulments for reasons that others do, and say: "Well if she or he did it, so can you!" The idea is ridiculous.
Gina
7/18/2012 06:21:16 am
{hugs}
Dom
7/18/2012 06:05:57 am
(In wonder) My goodness, aren't you judgmental. We don't always get what we want in this life, or in our marriages, but that certainly doesn't mean that we're necessarily being abused. Nor does it mean that we're being passive-aggressive when we dare to share our pain on the fact, and it most CERTAINLY doesn't qualify us to divorce ourselves from the situation just because it's not what we thought we signed up for. If that were the case, that 50 percent marital failure rate would rank in at a hundred, and the word 'commitment' might as well be erased from the vocabulary of humanity altogether, never mind the words 'prayer' and 'miracles.'
Gina
7/18/2012 06:22:18 am
"To give up on each other because of our imperfections and fears is to give up, too, on the Presence of God in each other, and yes, on God Himself."
Nicole P.
7/18/2012 07:28:09 am
Your response aggravated me for a number of reasons:
Mary Ellen
7/18/2012 08:13:44 am
The term for a post like this is, I believe,
Gina
7/18/2012 08:15:17 am
Ha ha ha ha ha ha - thank you, Mary Ellen. I was trying to think of how best to respond to Nicole's post, but I can't put it any better than that.
M
7/18/2012 07:20:37 am
I think you are very brave and I understand the pain you are in. We had to make the decision to let our homestudy lapse and after we made the decision (and if came just a couple weeks after our oldest daughter ran away and was missing for days) I started to regret it, but my husband absolutely does not want more children while our oldest is still at home. This means that by the time she's out of the home, I will be over 35 and don't feel it would be responsible to TRY to get pregnant, so likely I will never experience a pregnancy. Although I feel lucky that I don't have to wade into the contraception debate with him, because we would need medications to GET pregnant rather than NOT to get pregnant.
Gina
7/18/2012 08:17:03 am
{Hugs} M. You've got my prayers. Your husband, too.
Kellyann Martin
7/19/2012 03:08:15 am
Gina,
Kelli
7/19/2012 03:31:44 am
Different Kelli, same thread!
Gina
7/19/2012 03:51:18 am
You're not taking up time! :) I appreciate your comments.
Gina
7/19/2012 03:48:35 am
Hi ladies,
Stacey R.
7/19/2012 03:54:36 am
Also from KA's thread!
Lorenzo
7/31/2012 12:46:00 am
Great witness,
Susan
7/31/2012 01:33:17 am
Lorenzo,
Gina
7/31/2012 02:07:26 am
Lorenzo - you have my prayers as well. Susan, what a organization!!! Thanks for posting it out there not just for Lorenzo, but for all of us who struggle and need the prayers.
Deb
7/31/2012 01:50:09 am
I'd love to reassure you that you are not the only one. Your honesty is amazing. This is not something that is easy to talk about among Catholics! God bless you both with freedom from fear and healing.
Gina
7/31/2012 02:20:01 am
{Hugs}
Joe
7/31/2012 02:20:50 am
Hello Gina,
I already sent my comments, but have few question for you?
Gina
7/31/2012 02:34:27 am
*Sigh*
prisca
7/31/2012 02:38:21 am
I feel for you as you are suffering the lack of fulfilling your natural desires to mother children. Not knowing the details of your situation it is hard to comment as I am not sure if you are using NFP which is legitimate or if you are using illigitimate birth control methods. If they are illigitimate, perhaps you should stop and demand to use NFP since otherwise you may be sinning by participating in the sin of spilling the seed or the blocking of the gift of life inherent in the sexual act. Assuming that you are using legitimate means, I feel for you and pray that in time, your husbands heart may be softened to using his life on earth giving of himself more completely. By posting this publicly you are going to receive a multitude of prayers on your behalf.
Gina
7/31/2012 03:11:51 am
Amen - prisca. Thanks for the reminder regarding prayers. Considering some of the commentary this has garnered, it's good to keep in mind that for every condemnation there are countless blessings and prayers.
Gerry Zipf
7/31/2012 02:58:36 am
Oh Gina...you are a beautiful soul and truly, God has placed John in your life to bring you both closer to Him! Do not be afraid to regard John's lack of trust in God's will to bless as sin...(we are all sinners) and to pray fervently and constantly for his conversion...then, trust in God's perfect (and permissive) will for you both! Meanwhile, do not worry about Vincent being an only child...Our Lord Jesus was an only child!
Gina
7/31/2012 03:13:06 am
Bless you, Gerry. I honestly needed to read your comment right then and there. God was gracious to send you over. His timing is perfect.
Robert
7/31/2012 03:09:07 am
Gina,
Gina
7/31/2012 03:15:20 am
Robert, your comment is full of wisdom and compassion. I bless you for it.
Mary
7/31/2012 05:04:04 am
Robert....perfectly said. 7/31/2012 03:21:19 am
*sigh with restrained eye-rolling at some of the comments*
Laurie
7/31/2012 03:56:34 am
I would suggest that both you and your husband find as much information about Pope John Paul IIs Theology of the Body as you can. Find some seminars you could attend as well. This teaching explains the spousal meaning of the body from the word of God....It makes clear what marriage is all about. We have lost that meaning in our anti-procreative culture.
Mike
7/31/2012 04:24:54 am
Gina,
Mary
7/31/2012 05:34:20 am
I wholeheartly agree with Mike. I have suffered through this my whole marriage. When I married I was not a practicing Catholic. I had a conversion two years later after my first born. My husband was really no religion. We had our second child six years later, we almost divorce during that time. I was too religious for him. I can't tell you how many prayers, tears, holy hours, and fasting that I have done over the years over this issue. My question for many of priests was this, is it ok to cooperate in the act of sex with me being open to life and him not being open to llife. I have to tell you I got alot of different answers from many different priests. So I called EWTN and a Catholic Family Land priests, Because I knew they followed the Church's teachings. They told me that my husband broke the bond of the marriage and it was not against church teaching to withold sex in that case in the marriage. I told him I would not cooperate, for I must be true to God first! I can not tell you how difficult that choice was for me. It was a risk, But I let go and let God. My husband relented, not happy about it at all! God blessed me with three more children. He came to love them all very much. Trusting God is very hard, sometimes it puts you into situations that seem very threating to one's way of life. It helped that I ran the Divine Mercy pray group at my church for a while, because He use this as my source of strength. My husband did later on get fixed behind my back. It was another crisies in our marriage, for I bellieve God wanted me to have a six child. It still pains me today. The marraige has not been easy, but we are still going. I know you are saying this is a cross for you, it was for me too. But in no way can you cooperate in that sin. It makes it almost impossible for God to work through Mortal sin. You have tied his hands, so to speak. You need to speak to some different priests, you can not rob from God which is rightfully his, YOUR future children. I know you think God has called you to this cross, but he did not call you to cooperate in in mortal sin, no matter what you tell yourself. It is a trick of the devil, we can NEVER cooperate in evil. I am sorry to say that. My husband is a good man, a good father but he never would of been if I had gone along with him. That is the truth. This thing about all children should be brought to life in love, As far as I am concern, they are. God loves each one of them! But they have to be born to Love him back. All of us are called to Love God first, that is why it is the first commandment. In the heart of Jesus's most merciful Heart, Mary
Gina,
Ri Fox
7/31/2012 05:55:05 am
I applaud you for your deep love for your husband and son. May God bless you and may you have peace in this situation.
Question
7/31/2012 05:56:50 am
So is it birth control they are using? Or natural method? If birth control, how are you reconciling this with your Catholic faith. No judgement just wondering. I haven't been able to read everything.
Laurie
7/31/2012 06:29:13 am
According to JP II, there is no difference between artificial and natural method if it is still being used as a form of contraception. He said that when one separates the "natural method' from the ethical dimension one no longer sees the difference between it and other methods(artificial means) (General Audience of Sept 5, 1984)
Catherine
7/31/2012 07:51:27 am
Whoa there, Laurie~ I appreciate your intent to help, but your wording needs a bit of clarification. Natural Family Planning (which has been loudly lauded and touted by the Church) is emphatically NOT 'contraception'. "Contra" (meaning 'against') conception is the placing of barriers or engaging in acts (such as withdrawal, etc.) that impede conception. I'm not certain what you are calling the 'natual method' that you are equating with artificial contraception, but NFP is not at all contrary to the teachings of the Catholic faith.
Betty
7/31/2012 06:17:38 am
Gina,
Laurie
7/31/2012 06:22:01 am
Our late Holy Father JP II made a profound statement in his catechesis of Theology of the Body...that "the conjugal act means not only love, but also potential fruitfulness, and thus it cannot be deprived of its full and adequate meaning by means of artificial interventions. In the conjugal act, it is not licit to separate artificially the unitiive meaning from the procreative meaning, because the one as well as the other belong to the innermost truth of the conjugal act...When the conjugal act is deprived of its inner truth because it is deprived artificially of its procreative capacity, it also ceases to be an act of love." (from his Wednesday audience on Theology of the body August 22, 1984.) Now there is a rich teaching behind that statement. Theology of the Body was intended to be a full and complete foundation for the encyclical Humanae Vitae. It is the answer to cultural confusion about sexuality. It needs to widely spread about to all Catholics through the church but also to non-Catholic Christians who should not have any problem with it being it is wholly based on Scripture.
Joe Rutkowski
7/31/2012 06:52:27 am
All I can say is I am a man who regrets contraception and sterilization! It sucked the intimacy out of our marriage. Love is a total gift of self and a big part of "self" is fertility. Without the total gift it becomes lust instead of love. I had all the reasons too. You sound young. I am 54 and have been through it.
Dionna
7/31/2012 06:59:17 am
Hi Gina,
Sarah
7/31/2012 07:17:59 am
My dear,
M
7/31/2012 01:45:06 pm
Sarah - I have felt so often that maybe the way that God wants more children in my life is the way that you describe above. We have three boys and I wanted another for so long when my husband really didn't. Nevertheless, we were open and ended up miscarrying a little over two years ago. The pain is as real today as it was back then (tears flowing right now). I have had so much anxiety and guilt over my fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby that I have often wondered if God wants us to adopt or take in other children. Thank you for your testimony - perhaps it was meant for me to read.
Sarah
8/1/2012 03:34:32 am
Keep your eyes open, M. There are children out there that need you. Probably never in a 'legal' way like foster care, but they need mentors, advocates, a hug, dinner...a new pair of jeans or a t-shirt. I'd suggest honing your 'crock pot' skills :-)
Gina
8/1/2012 03:27:06 pm
<3 this! Bless both of you. You'll be in my prayers. :)
M
7/31/2012 02:03:23 pm
Sarah - I have felt so often that maybe the way that God wants more children in my life is the way that you describe above. We have three boys and I wanted another for so long when my husband really didn't. Nevertheless, we were open and ended up miscarrying a little over two years ago. The pain is as real today as it was back then (tears flowing right now). I have had so much anxiety and guilt over my fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby that I have often wondered if God wants us to adopt or take in other children. My fear of getting pregnant again and losing the baby again is keeping me from truly being open to life (I think- I am getting up there in age, too!) Thank you for your testimony - perhaps it was meant for me to read.
Spiritual Friend
7/31/2012 07:48:37 am
I don't mean to judge, but only to point out some things to consider as you discern what to do in this situation. So bear with me.
Gina
7/31/2012 07:53:47 am
You haven't read this article in full at all, have you?
C.B.
7/31/2012 08:31:39 am
I agree with what your saying in general, but if John was open to life in the beginning wouldn't their marriage already have been valid? I would like to see where the Church teaches this.Let me use an analogy. Marrying a person who is an alcoholic is one thing but if your husband/wife falls into alcoholism thats different. You then have the responsibility of helping that person get up right?
Charlene
7/31/2012 08:01:14 am
I seen this on SpiritDaily.com
Gina
7/31/2012 08:12:52 am
I'm posting this as a comment so all who have been following this thread are able to read it.
Charles B.
7/31/2012 08:16:17 am
spiritdaily.com is directing viewers your way. I myself am one.
M
7/31/2012 09:27:11 am
Gina - you are a brave woman and I will add you to my prayer list. I cried at how faithful you have been and feel that the Lord will greatly reward you for that alone.
Laura
7/31/2012 09:46:42 am
Hi - I just read your witness. It encourages me to accept my cross with the love Jesus has for me. I will pray for you and your family - please pray for mine.
Tom in Wisconsin
7/31/2012 12:58:05 pm
Very well written and from the heart. You know that Job too was mysteriously tested. He didn't understand why, but remained faithful and saw an increase in his family in the end. It's clear you are filled with a lot of love and you are greatly loved by Our Lord. Peace and God be with you and your family.
I think your are an amazing woman with great faith. Your insight and knowledge are based on prays and personal relationship with the holy spirit. Your husband is a very blessed person. I was once told by a priest the role of a wife and husband is to get each other to heaven.
Monica (momof2)
7/31/2012 01:30:38 pm
I read the whole article and all the comments. But I have one question which has not be directly asked or answered. Why doesn't your husband want to use NFP? NFP today (especially using the Fertility Monitor device) is extremely accurate. So if your husband has good reasons to avoid pregnancy you just have relations during infertile times. True, you still won't get anymore kids but at least you can fully unite as husband and wife with the sex act itself still being open to life as you both promised to be at your marriage. no worrying about sin. Yes, your husband would have to make the very small sacrifice of abstaining some days every month (which is not anywhere equal to your sacrifice) but it seems if he truly loves you he could do that for you. Have you discussed NFP and if so what are his objections to it?
Brian
8/1/2012 08:39:18 am
Gina - it was a pleasure to read your article, just to know that such a wonderful person as you exists. I suppose there are many like you, but the thoughts and feelings are not known. Your love for kids is great. I agree with Monica. Seems like using NFP is something to consider. It's not 100% affective, which your husband might worry about, but neither is any other form. I do think it would bring you closer to each other, as now your decision as a couple not to have children would be a shared sacrifice, instead of one only carried by you. That might be a way to sell it to him! Here, hon, is a way for you to fall more deeply in love with me. Ha ha!
Dana
7/31/2012 02:53:06 pm
I have been where you are. My husband wasn't to thrilled having the first and clearly wanted to stop after the second. PRAY PRAY PRAY!! SACRIFICE SACRIFICE SACRIFICE!!! God hears and can to all things. I put my foot down on the NFP. If he wanted to be with me it was NFP or there was no business in the bedroom. I would continue to ask him each month if he wanted another child. If he said no then we skipped the time of fertility. Three years later he decided he wouldn't mind a third. Then the kids began to ask if we could have another. I don't lie not even for my husband. I told them and anyone else that asked to talk to my husband. I have always wanted more children. On one of our anniversaries he agreed that he would like to have a fourth child. That little girl passed away before she was born. I was deviated and asked once again if we could have another child. God gave us a son who also passed away. I could not even think of going through such pain and told God only he could convince us both to try again. In his wisdom God gave us another child and this little girl lived. What a miracle. God gave us six children and my husband was not sold on having any. God is good!!! Pray that your husband has an unquenchable desire for the Eucharist and an increase in faith. Stand on the truth. After all if you really love your husband you will want heaven for him. Love God above all things even your husband. God will take care of the rest.
Bee Blockerson
7/31/2012 04:37:18 pm
As I read your post I was so heartbroken for you, and you expressed your pain so well that it is almost palpable. It seems you are trying to convey that even though you are often unintentionally confronted with the reminder of what you do not have and will probably never have but desire with all your heart, you must often suffer in silence out of charity for others, but that you understand your situation as a sacrifice of love. I do not know how old you are, but because of some of the ways you express yourself you sound relatively young, perhaps in your late 20’s or early 30’s. I am in my late 50’s and never married and have no children, though I desired both very much my whole life. I wanted to marry someone who wanted children, and I never met that man. So I did not marry. As I grew older and realized I was not going to have children, I often felt the pain you so aptly describe, in the same sorts of situations. I am now in menopause and I will never have what I wanted. So I can grasp what you are saying. I know this is not the same situation as yours, but I want to say something to you about your idea of sacrificing your desire for more children as an act of love for your husband. You mention that “Maybe this is the cross Christ is asking me to bear.” Maybe it is, for today or for a little while. But here’s my advice to you. Say “no” in your spirit. Say no, and mean no, that you will not accept only one child unless God wants that for you. Then you go to Our Lady and you beg her, you plead, you nag, you whine, you cry and you tell her you want ALL the kids God wants you to have, and you tell her to ask Jesus to soften your husband’s heart, that you respect him as your head, and you will obey him, but his desire for no more kids is not okay with you and you want God’s will to be done in your lives. Promise Our Lady you will dedicate your children to her, that you will name them after her (even the boys, somehow!). Pray to St. Elizabeth, who gave up on having a child, but didn't stop praying for one and was blessed with St. John the Baptist in her old age. Tell her to you need help, ask her to pray for you. Ask these two holy women to conspire to get you your kids. Do this as often as you think of this problem, every day, several times a day if you think of it, for years if you have to, until you get the peace you are seeking, and an answer from God. You don’t have to mention this to your husband or even try to change his mind, but here’s the thing. If God only wants little Vincent for you, you will come to understand this is okay and you will find peace. If God wants more kids for you , and you show Him how great is your desire, He will find a way where there seems to be no way. And what will happen is your own faith will increase, and you will find joy, not pain, in your situation. Don’t just sit there…PETITION! For goodness sake, GO TO GOD WITH YOUR PROBLEM! In my life, because of my prayers, I accept my childlessness, but I STILL HAVE HOPE. I know it is ridiculous, but I still hope in some crazy way God will give me what I desire. It’s impossible, but I don’t care. And if a miracle ever happens for me, I’ll let you know.
Gina
8/1/2012 03:29:54 pm
Bee, I think you somehow got into my mind and wrote out exactly how I pray... lol.
Someone
8/1/2012 02:52:13 am
Thank you for your post. I came across it today. It must've been incredibly hard for you to write that.
Lorraine
8/1/2012 04:15:32 am
All I read here was love...true love. The kind that we gaze upon on the Crucifix. And I KNOW that with God all things are possible. And It's preciesly because of your Christian love for your husband that his heart will be flooded with graces through your prayers. I feel so blessed to have read this post. Marriage is so multi-faceted...so many layers, so many unique and at times difficult peculiarities. I have been married for 32 years and have six children. Although it's a different story than yours in so many ways, my marriage is strong because of the very same love you describe in your post for perhaps opposite reasons. But the result is the same. Love wins. Love conquers. Sacrifice is the face of love. Love has a name: Jesus...and He showed us what love looks like. It's as near as the closest Tabernacle and Crucifix. God bless you. Continue to love. Love wins.
Kim
8/1/2012 04:44:08 am
Thank you so much for sharing.
Aunt Raven
8/1/2012 05:47:27 am
You clearly need a miracle, so here's how to get them: Read about the green scapular; get one blessed for your husband, stuff it under his side of the matress, and say the little inscription on it every day.
Gina
8/1/2012 03:32:36 pm
Hello 'Aunt Raven'
Amanda
8/1/2012 07:47:15 am
2 words for you... St. Gerard.
Gina
8/1/2012 03:33:05 pm
Amen! :) He was wonderful to my son, Vince, while I was pregnant. I'm so happy you had a happy ending, yourself. Bless you.
Laurie
8/1/2012 12:44:12 pm
You and your family will be in my prayers. I have learned to pray for God's will in all things. Not what I think should happen, nor what anyone else thinks should happen, but truly for the grace to accept all the good and bad in my life as God's will. I admire your sacrifice, and I pray that God's will is accomplished in your marriage. As I often tell my kids when they're going through a hard time, offer it up, God will do something great with your sacrifice. His ways are not our ways and He can bring good out of anything! May God give you his peace.
Mfh
8/1/2012 01:33:26 pm
i believe there is power in prayer. Get an army of people to pray for this situation aka rosaries/masses and God will move mountains. :)
Shelly
8/1/2012 02:32:50 pm
I haven't had time to read the overwhelming number of posts. However, I really sympathize with your grief, your intense desire to have more children that you've always dreamed of and your husband's conflicting desire to have no more. This is a STRUGGLE especially for you. You don't need therapy, for goodness' sake for obvious reasons you've stated. I find it actually amazing that you don't resent him. I wanted more children (we have 3) and finally I became pregnant and my husband was sooooo angry with me. We had a car accident and I lost the baby and to be honest, I resented him because he was driving too fast and I really think I miscarried because of the accident. He also doesn't agree with NFP but is going along with it somewhat resentfully. But, he's not as angry about it as he used to be. I have ached to hold more children or at least another child in my arms. And I never used to dream of having children as a child. Whatever, you have made yourself extremely vulnerable. I commend you for your openness. I couldn't quite tell but I'm guessing your husband is Catholic. I'm assuming here that you know all about the Theology of the Body. And being that you two are so open with your emotions and interests, thoughts, etc. have you ever thought of sharing parts of a CD with him that really speaks to you- if you own any TOB CD's or any passages of books about this topic with him-if you own any books. Or, is this whole situation too fragile to read him something like this? On the other hand, it sounds like he was previously open to having more children and things changed along the way. (Of course, a change of beliefs or opinions AFTER marriage is not grounds for an annulment, whatever people are saying). If I remember correctly from a post that you said his thoughts about not having more children involve some fear. Fear of not providing. Fear you may not have enough love to give around (does he know how much love you have in your heart waiting to give away? Painful). Have you talked with him about some of his fears? Maybe you can pray for his faith to increase. With an increase in faith and trust in Our Lord, perhaps his viewpoints about things may change. I don't know. My husband has actually brought up a vasectomy. That scared me and still does though he hasn't brought it up recently. I, however, am prone to resentment. It's not huge, but it's there. How do you NOT resent him for denying you more lives and souls to bring into this world? Let me know how you do not resent him. Right now, I have health issues that will not be resolved soon. So, having children wouldn't be wise right now.
Gina
8/1/2012 03:43:26 pm
To Everyone:
PPD Mom
8/1/2012 04:02:58 pm
Dear Gina
CEM
8/1/2012 04:28:09 pm
Just a few thoughts......it is quite sad to read how many people want you to quickly divorce..........I actually admire your faithfulness to your husband........and just to think how a divorce would hurt your son..........What made me think was the idea that you separate the contraception issue and say that you are not contracepting even though your husband is. I always thought that there is either contraception used, or not, but I do understand where you are coming from.....Then I thought that maybe it would be better to use NFP anyway and avoid the fertile days. Even if he still uses the condoms on the non-fertile days, well, at least no actual contraception is taking place, since no conception could happen........that might also benefit your relationshipthrough the temporary times of abstinence and might plant a seed in his heart, a growing awareness of your gift of fertility which could otherwise be more easily ignored. Again, I admire your faithfulness and love for your husband just hope that God will open his heart for the gift of life. I know of husbands who dearly regretted their contraceptive surgery after some years......they were overwhelmed at that point but wanted more children later. I agree with one of the comments, it is a good sign that your husband did not choose surgery................there is still lots of hope.
prayerwarrior4Jesus
8/1/2012 05:41:29 pm
Yes, you're right, Gina. Your emotions and suffering are a lot like those of us who are physically infertile. The sorrow and pain comes back to me readily, even bringing tears to my eyes as I empathize with you completely, but 32 years ago the Lord blessed us with an adopted child--it took just 6 months from application to him being in our home, less than a pregnancy. They told it it would take at least three years for us to be able to adopt. God's perfect miracle and perfect timing. I wanted more children, my husband did not. God took care of that. No, we did not adopt any more children, but God gave me such a peace about it, that I knew He knew me and our family's needs better than we did ourselves. My prayer in all circumstances is, "Lord, if you do not want this for me, please take the desire away." He has been faithful in this prayer in huge and small ways. I know our son was supposed to be in our family, and I also know that he needed to be an only child. God does not make mistakes, and He is in total control. The desires of your heart will be met by God in His Way, His time. I don't know if that involves more children for you or not, but I do know that the suffering and pain you offer up to God are more powerful than the greatest need to bear children. I am fiercely pro-life and I am asking that you offer it up for an end to the slaughter of babies in their mothers' wombs. And I ask St. Joseph to intercede powerfully 24/7 before the Throne of Jesus for you and you husband and your child. He is the perfect go-to Saint for all things, especially husbands, marriages, and families. God is doing what needs to be done. I feel a great peace for you and your husband. We thank God for what He has already done, what He is doing now, and for He is yet to do in your family. God bless you!
magdalene
8/1/2012 06:44:49 pm
I commend you and your husband and son to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to help you in this situation and for the miracle of another child or of a peace that surpasses all understanding. Stay close to Mary. Thank you for your courage.
Maria-Camilla
8/5/2012 01:59:24 pm
To Gina:
AnnInFL
11/14/2015 01:46:41 am
Sorry, but your husband is being selfish. You should insist that he give you another child. You can promise to do all the work of raising the child. That should satisfy him. 6/4/2018 04:55:28 am
6/5/2018 03:17:32 am
I believe there is power in prayer. Get an army of people to pray for this situation aka rosaries/masses and God will move mountains.
thankful4mercy
7/21/2018 09:43:30 am
Praying for you and your husband. This is an incredible cross for you both and thank you for sharing from your heart. Much love from a reader who just found your blog.
Linda
3/4/2019 02:29:00 pm
Dear Sister in Christ, Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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