My Broken Fiat
  • Blog
  • About / Contact Me
    • My 'Reversion'
    • Why "MyBrokenFiat?"
  • The Archive
  • Prayers
  • Blog
  • About / Contact Me
    • My 'Reversion'
    • Why "MyBrokenFiat?"
  • The Archive
  • Prayers

Novus Ordo and Tridentine Masses

6/10/2014

9 Comments

 
I just about lost my mind via cellphone the other day.  I did precisely what I just promised I'd try not to do in this entry.

If there's one thing that can set me off, it's the whole "Novus Ordo vs. Tridentine Mass" thing that has people on both sides of the aisle crying out with indignation.

I had originally titled this entry Novus Ordo vs. Tridentine Masses, but then I realized I was fueling the fire even more.  Why must there be a "versus" in there all the time?  

I've never attended a Tridentine Mass.  Ever since coming back to the Church, I've wanted to.  I follow blogs that support the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) in the hopes that should I ever build up enough courage, I won't make a complete fool of myself the first time I attend.

From all I understand about a Tridentine Mass, I know I'll love it.  I see its value and know it's a necessary balm for our aching Church.

That being said, I don't see why I have to trounce the Novus Ordo in order to appreciate the beauty of the TLM.  

Why can't we accept that both forms of the Mass accomplish this:
Picture
Which encapsulates both this
Picture









 and
Picture
Now I fully understand that liturgical abuses have abounded within the NO (Novus Ordo), but that does not mean that the NO is completely without merit.

It doesn't mean that a NO Mass is invalid and those who worship at NO Masses aren't really Catholic.

Those sorts of statements are vicious, uncharitable, an incredibly arrogant.

And I shot back stating as much.  

I mean, I didn't even know that a TLM existed in the present day until I had my reversion.  I didn't know that there were still priests (and laity) who prayed in Latin and celebrated Mass ad orientem (priest facing the tabernacle) vs. ad populum (priest facing the people with his back to the tabernacle, and thus, Christ).  That was all super new to me!

Should I be labelled non-Catholic because I was ignorant that "the old Mass" still existed?

Methinks not.

Picture
For the record, I believe that ad orientem obviously makes the most sense, but I wish that, instead of the crucifix, the tabernacle was present. Point still stands regardless, though.
Also, what of the folks who simply don't have TLMs available in their vicinity (through absolutely no fault of their own)?  Should they, too, be labelled as something less than Catholic because their only mode of celebrating the Paschal Mystery is through the Novus Ordo Mass?  

Gah.

I'm all for having the TLM alive and well in every parish in the world.  I really am.  However, I'm not okay with constantly being made to feel inferior because I accept the NO Mass as a valid form of worship.  And this inferiority complex is being forced on me by my fellow Catholics!

I just don't understand this vitriol.  I really don't.  I love that there are folks out there who are passionate about bringing back the TLM.  I'm happy that there is a drive to educate Catholics of their roots and the beauty of our original liturgy.  I am grateful that blogs like Fr. Z's What Does the Prayer Really Say go out of their way to highlight the original prayers and expound on the prayerful insights and spiritual education that can be found within them.

I really do.  

However, within this same group of passionate, driven people are those who take their zeal to the point of arrogance.  They wish to trample charity in the name of propping up the TLM. They are precisely the reason I feel ill-equipped to attend a TLM.  I'm afraid of riling anger from kneeling at the wrong spot, misspeaking Latin, or even wearing the wrong color veil.  

I am absolutely certain that most folks who attend the TLM wouldn't treat me poorly for learning to crawl my way through a TLM.  I'm sure many of them would jump at the chance to help me learn to walk until eventually I was confident in my celebration of a TLM in union with them.  However, I've come across enough "bad apples" that I simply don't want to deal with the arrogant chastisement for the litany of mistakes I'm sure I'd make.  

Maybe that's my own insecurity talking.  Maybe I'm even trying to make excuses for not attending the TLM.  The truth is, though, that there really are enough folks out there who have trounced me and my defense of NO Masses that I have been scared off TLMs for the time being.  I'm not part of their "holier than thou" club.  I'm not spiritually enlightened.  I'm not theologically justified in my abhorrence of all things Vatican II. 

That makes me sad, because like I said before, I KNOW there are plenty of loving proponents of the TLM who would happily endure my mistakes and patiently teach me the ways of our beautiful liturgy.  Until I find one close enough to me who I feel comfortable enough to rely on, though, I'm steering clear.   

In the meantime, however, I'll continue to defend the NO Mass as a valid way of celebrating the Paschal Mystery.  No amount of human error is going to detract from the efficacy of Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection.  
9 Comments
Deo Volente link
6/11/2014 03:57:52 am

Gina,

I understand your trepidation as we tend to fear what we don't know. And, sadly, it is the case that there are some who attend the "Traditional Mass" who are not always friendly. One might say they can be snobbish and that is quite sad.

So, I suggest you find someone who has attended the TLM and go with them. Take your cue from them. Let them explain what is to happen and the rest will go smoothly from there.

Peace!

Reply
Gina
6/11/2014 10:01:21 am

{hugs}

I was thinking of you when I wrote this (regarding folks who are awesome and wish to build up the TLM in POSITIVE ways... not mean ways). I would likely brave a TLM with you or any of the other bloggers who have given me such a beautiful, loving appreciation for what the TLM offers.

I just really wish there wasn't so much in-fighting amongst Catholics that pits TLM against NO.

And it's from both sides of the aisle. There are some NO folks who balk at folks who attend TLM as if they were back-road fuddy-duddies who can't keep up with the times.

It just makes me so sad, and if that's the impression that I (as a cradle Catholic) get, I can't even imagine what folks on the outside looking in must see.

:(

But to you, I say thanks. I think you, coupled with Father Z, have done the most to cultivate a desire within me to attend a TLM.

And as I said to Keith below... one day I will try, and I know when I do, I'll be kicking myself for not going sooner. I just know it. :)

Reply
Deo Volente link
6/12/2014 09:20:08 am

Gina,

I have a page on my blog called "TLM Info." The top link on this page is to the F.S.S.P. which has 3 training videos for priests. At the bottom of this page is a promo for the TLM which you can watch.

Here is a link to the page:

http://tlm-md.blogspot.com/p/tlm-info.html

And this below links to an entire Mass done in 3 short segments:

http://tlm-md.blogspot.com/2013/01/fssp-training-videos-on-traditional.html

The priest is saying Mass only with an altar boy, but I think you'll see why it is called the "Quiet Mass." The priest faces towards Christ and not away from the people. They are facing the same direction as he!

Peace!
DV

Sean O'Brenan
8/12/2021 11:29:38 pm

Don't worry one moment about what "folks on the outside must see". They, Protestants and such, are so full of judgement and disdain for Holy Mother Church, who cares what they think..it is of no account. As far as worrying about making mistakes, just go..attend a TLM Noo one ought to 'watching you' anyway. Enjoy and be filled with an amazing spirit. All I could think of before I attended my first TLM( at Holy family Parish in Vancouver BC) in 40 years was how moved my Mum and Dad would be to see me there. Just close your eyes and listen to the mellifluous language of the Latin Mass...this is your heritage, our heritage as Catholics. This is our 2000 year old tradition, take part even if you only hear a Latin Mass once. It is soooo moving and beautiful and ascendant !

keithp
6/11/2014 09:38:34 am

Wny not just go to an EF Mass and put your trepidation to rest?
Go to a High Mass with the full schola if you have the opportunity. If you are concerned about "making mistakes" it is very very easy to find the EF linturgy on line.

And I would specifically address the "... not always friendly..."...meme... that seems to constantly pop up. Just because people are not chatting and slapping each other on the back in the pews doesnt mean they are unfriendly, it likely means they are preparing themselves for the Mass.

Reply
Gina
6/11/2014 09:57:18 am

Ha ha - Keith, I've definitely thought of going to an EF Mass (we even have one near me now once a month) and just "getting it over with" so I can finally experience it, but I guess it's akin to just jumping out of an airplane to parachute.

I've always wanted to go skydiving (true story), but taking the plunge is still going to be an anxiety-riddled process.

I feel ridiculous for admitting that, especially given I'm talking about Mass. I shouldn't be so concerned with what other people thing given I'm supposed to be focused solely on God, but I'm being realistic.

Also, I'm not making the unfriendly comment regarding folks I've seen in the pews (given I've never been to a TLM to see anyone in a pew). I'm making the comment regarding the litany of people online who have actively worked to make me (and others like me) feel inferior because we attend NO Masses.

It's precisely those people that have "scared me off" my first TLM experience.

One day I'm determined to try, though.

:)

Reply
keithp
6/11/2014 10:16:27 am

To make your first TLM experience the least awkward wear a dress past your knees and where a mantilla or scarf. As I said, it is relatively easy to find a copy of the '62 missal on line. Sit in the back and be prepared to do the stand/kneel more often. I promise you that after 2-3 EF Mass, you'll be more comfortable and better appreciate and experience the EF.

When I returned to my Catholic Faith after a ~20+ year absence, I was very very nervous and self conscious about being present at a Mass. I imagined all sorts of "looks" about my presence. What helped me the most was my thought that for all those other folks in the Church as far as they know, I am a visitor of the highest sanctity and grace. Obviously, I wasn't but they didn't know that either!

I was directing my "not always friendly" at a different person.

I attend Mass at a local Men's religious shrine that offers only the NO. I am blessed and grateful that the provincial keeps the liturgical "innovations" so prevalent at other parishes to a bare minimum. Our bishop moved the EF out of our nearby parish about 3 years ago. And, those folks can only celebrate the EF now at a Catholic cemetery. But, for about one year I regularly attended an EF. It was quite an awakening for me on the ancient liturgy and traditions.

I do very sincerely hope you can attend at least on EF in your life time. I suspect it will be considerably easier and holier than sky diving.

-pax-

Gina
6/17/2014 12:12:43 pm

Oh gosh... I just had a terrible thought.

I am resolved to go to the next TLM in my area (middle of August, I think). I want to go to Confession to make it as worthwhile as possible, but when I thought of going to Confession before going to a TLM, the thought crossed my mind that a TLM parish might do Confession differently than I'm used to.

I had a minor heart-attach for about ten seconds until I realized I've never heard folks complain about TLM Confession vs. NO Confession. I assume the script is the same regardless, right?

Anyone?

Also, if you just rolled your eyes at the stupidity of my question, that's okay. I sorta feel like an idiot for even posting it. *Blush*

Reply
Kathryn H.
6/18/2014 06:43:13 am

I never thought of that, but I found this lovely webpage that explains Confession according to the 1962 form:

http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/faq/receiving-other-sacraments-in-the-extraordinary-form.html

But nobody ever needs to feel shy about approaching the Sacrament of Penance in any form! Priests are happy to help, even if you've never been before or it's been many years. ;-)

I've been to the Extraordinary Form Mass numerous times, although not enough to have it actually memorized, and there really isn't that much for the congregation to keep straight. I brought my own missal but found that the church had its own little booklets to help the congregation, so I didn't have to flip back and forth in my book. The last time I went, while on a vacation out of town, the priest was delighted to see a new face there and welcomed me warmly at the door after Mass. Just relax and enjoy praying! :-)

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Top Rated Entries

    My Darkest Secret

    Do Animals Have Souls?

    10 Things a Parent of an SPD Kid Wants to Say

    Fun and Easy Lenten Crafts

    Tattoo Taboo

    Blessed Mother as Intercessor

    Loss of Life

    Women Priests II

    Animal Sacrifices

    Render Unto Caesar

    Veiling

    The Godparent Poem

    Broken Friendships

    Miscarriage Reflection

    NYT Anti-Catholic Ad

    Categories

    All
    180
    Abortion
    Adoption
    Adoration
    Adultery
    Agnosticism
    Angels
    Animals
    Annulment
    Apparitions
    Art
    Atheism
    Bahamas
    Baptism
    Blessed Mother
    Blessed-mother
    Blogging
    Books
    Boycott
    Breastfeeding
    Bullying
    Cafeteria Catholic
    Cafeteria Catholics
    Cats
    Ccd
    Celibacy
    Chaput
    Children
    Christmas
    Churches
    Confession
    Conscience
    Contests
    Contraception
    Cookies
    Corapi
    Crafts
    Creation
    Cross
    Defense Of Faith
    Depression
    Divine Mercy
    Divine Providence
    Divine-providence
    Divorce
    Dolan
    Donation
    Dreams
    Easter
    Education
    Eucharist
    Euthanasia
    Evangelization
    Family
    Feasts
    Food
    Forgiveness
    Free Will
    Friendship
    Fun
    Gaza
    Guest Post
    Hat Tip
    Health Care
    Heaven
    Hebrew
    Hhs
    Holy Week
    Homeschooling
    Homily
    Homosexuality
    Illumination
    Incarnation
    Incorruptibles
    Indulgences
    Infertility
    Inspiration
    Intentions
    Intercession
    Intercessions
    Interview
    Islam
    Jewelry
    Kidney
    Komen
    Language
    Lawsuit
    Lbm
    Lent
    Lightbulb Moments
    Liturgy
    Mandate
    Marriage
    Martyrs
    Mass
    Media
    Medjugorje
    Mercy
    Mexico
    Miracles
    Miscarriage
    Moderation
    Moses
    Motherhood
    Music
    Myla
    Nuns
    Old Testament
    Parenting
    Parishes
    Pedophilia
    Pentecost
    Persecution
    Personal
    Philadelphia
    Philly
    Pilgrimage
    Planned Parenthood
    Poetry
    Politics
    Poll
    Pope
    Prayer
    Pregnancy
    Priests
    Prophecy
    Propoganda
    Purgatory
    Question Box
    Quick Takes
    Random
    Recipes
    Reflections
    Relics
    Religious Freedom
    Reviews
    Ridiculous
    Rosary
    Sacrament
    Sacrifice
    Saint
    Saints
    Scandal
    School
    Science
    Seed
    Sewing
    Sexuality
    Sin
    Social Issues
    Social Issues
    SPD
    Spiritual Dryness
    St Anthonybd986ec1d5
    Steubenville
    Suffering
    Tattoos
    Terrorism
    TLM
    Triduum
    Trinity
    Trust
    Twa
    Vatican
    Veiling
    Veils
    Vincent
    Visionaries
    Wedding
    Women Priests

    Pages I Stalk

    A Woman's Place
    Dymphna's Road
    Having Left the Altar
    Fr. Z @ WDTPRS
    Spirit Daily
    These Stone Walls
    St. Joseph's Vanguard
    Catholic Sistas
    Catholic Icing
    Liturgical Time
    Traditional Latin Mass
    Shameless Popery
    Life Victorious
    Catholic Dads
    S'aint Easy
    Truth, Beauty and Goodness
    The Way Out There
    Written by the Finger of 
       God
    Little Catholic Bubble
    So You're a Church Musician
    There and Back Again
    Make It - Love It
    St. Monica's Bridge
    Seeking Renewal 
    Picture

    Archives

    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    February 2017
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013
    August 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    December 2010
    October 2010
    October 2005

    RSS Feed

Copyright 2021